Help on painting King Tiger

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Jagdtiger-T-U
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Post by Jagdtiger-T-U » 15 Nov 2003 00:11

Anyway, back to the subject, is it still reasonable for me to spray paint my king tiger panzergray? Since my army can represents german army before 1942.

Thanks

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seele02
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Post by seele02 » 15 Nov 2003 00:50

well there where no King Tigers before 1944!!!

martyn powell
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Post by martyn powell » 15 Nov 2003 01:25

Hi Jagdtiger-T-U

Sorry no as Timo said Panzergrau was switched to a base coat dark yellow from Feb-43.The first Tiger II after prototypes and testing came out in Nov-43,so your tiger will have to be Three tone colour.
To save money paint your Tiger white,thin white paint and do it as a winter camo.

Martyn

Timo
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Post by Timo » 15 Nov 2003 08:05

WikingSoldat wrote:Tan, Rust brown and Dark Green is only my generic defenition of the colors. The shades could differ duo to if they have used petrol, water or what ever in the paint. This was added in the field. On top of this spraygun settings could differ. All this makes the shades of color to be different. Its difficult to give an exact color.

WikingSoldat


But "rust brown" is actually primer red and this was just the base coat. Primer red was never used as secundary color in any camo pattern. Also, when you mention the "small spots", you're specifically referring to the ambush pattern which was, as far as I know, factory applied.

WikingSoldat
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Post by WikingSoldat » 15 Nov 2003 10:52

Timo Worst wrote:
WikingSoldat wrote:Tan, Rust brown and Dark Green is only my generic defenition of the colors. The shades could differ duo to if they have used petrol, water or what ever in the paint. This was added in the field. On top of this spraygun settings could differ. All this makes the shades of color to be different. Its difficult to give an exact color.

WikingSoldat


But "rust brown" is actually primer red and this was just the base coat. Primer red was never used as secundary color in any camo pattern. Also, when you mention the "small spots", you're specifically referring to the ambush pattern which was, as far as I know, factory applied.


Rust brown is stil my generic name for the red used in the camo.
No red or green shade is wrong or right. The paint came in powder form to the front line. The crews mixed the paint with either fuel or water. This would give different shades in colors. No German tanks where leaving the factory with camo. It was done close to the front or in a collecting/training area before moving to the front. Late in the war (Spring 1945) red primer was some times used in the camoflage as ordinary paint was used up.

Cheers.
WikingSoldat

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 15 Nov 2003 13:53

To end the debate, from my own article on the subject:

On February 18th 1943, OKH ordered that all vehicles in Europe should painted with a base colour of RAL 7028 'Dunkelgelb' (dark yellow) at the factory. Over this, a coat of Olivgrün or RAL 8017 'Rotbraun' (red brown) was to be applied in the field by the crews. The scheme in which the paint was to be applied would be set up by the comamnder of the platoon, to reflect local conditions and colours. These colours were supplied in 2kg and 20kg (4 and 40lbs) packs in a paste-like substance. Thinning the paste with water or gasoline (other liquids were probably also used, depending on availability. Water itself was not a good thinner, as it whased off in rain), the paint should then be applied to the vehicle.
The application schemes were many - too many to be listed here. In most cases, however, the paint was applied in wither broad bands of paint (sometimes with smaller dots of paints on them), or in thin criss-cross strokes. Small patches with irregular shapes were also used.

In August 1944, the factories were instructed to paint the vehicles at the plants, because of confusion about the new paints. This created more uniform patterns, the ambush schemes, but it consumed production time.

In September 1944, the factories were instructed to leave the vehicles in the RAL 8012 'Rot' (red) primer. About ½ of the vehicle sould then be camouflaged with Dunkelgelb, Olivgrün and Rotbraun by the crews. If no Dunkelgelb could be supplied, Feldgrau could be used.

In November 1944, a program was started that meant the vehciles should leave the factory in a base coat of Dunkelgrün. Armour manufacturers were to paint the components in Dunkelgrün, and factories were to apply the colour. The program was not finished when the war ended, though.


From August 1944, ALL Panzers were painted at the factories. That would include about 75% of ALL Tiger IIs. Since the first 50 Tiger IIs were given the early Krupp turret, these should all have the February 1943 pattern. About 150 Tiger IIs with the late Krupp turret would have the February 1943 pattern (depending on when exactly the order to paint in the September 1944 colours, as many as 200 Tiger IIs might have recieved the February 1943 colours).

Furthermore, two months production of Tiger II had the Rot base colour, while in that time span would be at least 50-100 Tiger IIs, depending on when exactly the order was put into effect at the plants. The November 1944 program was not yet implemented at the end of the war, so it would be reasonable to assume only a small portion of the Tiger IIs would have this pattern at the end of the war (some have been seen).

Thus, we can assume that at as many as half of all Tiger IIs were in the September 1944 colours.

Christian

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Jagdtiger-T-U
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Post by Jagdtiger-T-U » 15 Nov 2003 15:07

Hi,

O I C! Sorry for my ignorance on WWII history. Thanks anyway!


I am planning to buy Dragon Model Kit: Karl Series. I've heard that you have to glue tracks one by one together, is there a company that sells chained rubber tracks that can fit on the Karl Series?

Thanks
Jagd

WikingSoldat
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Post by WikingSoldat » 15 Nov 2003 16:31

The saga goes on...
Thanks Christian. That supports both me and Timo Worst.
Interesting reading.
There is one thing that confuse the whole thing: Zimerit, the antimagnetic paste used on Tiger 2, Jagdtiger and Sturmtiger. If some tanks where painted at the factory, it would be in vain, as it is common to see these tanks with Zimerit. With Zimerit the tank has to be painted again.

I have a few photos on a Tiger 2 (Porche turret). The photos are taken from either the factory or a equipment garage. It has the dark yellow painted on top of Zimmerit. Did the factorys do the Zimmerit?
I have other photos showing a crew painting a Tiger 2 (Henschel turret) with sprayguns, clearly painting with either green or red. This on top of Zimmerit.

WikingSoldat
Last edited by WikingSoldat on 15 Nov 2003 18:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 15 Nov 2003 17:29

Zimmerit was most often applied at the factories. The application ended in September 1944. By the way, just to clarify, the November 1944 pattern was to be effective from March 1945.

Thus, most vehicles with Zimmerit would have had applied Zimmerit at the factories, and then be painted in the field.

The Tiger IIs with early Krupp turrets you refer to would all have been painted in the field, and in Dunkelgelb with Rotbraun and Dunkelgrün camouflage as mentioned above, and all of them recieved Zimmerit.

The painting sequence you are referring to is from June 1944.

Since the order to cease Zimmerit and to commence the September 1944 pattern are from about the same time, we can conclude that the following would be the best way to paint Tiger IIs (the numbers in parantheses are not completely accurate in all cases, but a good estimate based on production statistics of each month):

Tiger IIs with the early Krupp turret (50) should have
- Zimmerit
- February 1943 field applied camouflage

Tiger IIs with the late Krupp turret produced until August (62) should have
- Zimmerit
- February 1943 field applied camouflage

Tiger IIs produced in August (94) should have
- Zimmerit
- February 1943 factory applied camouflage

Tiger IIs produced from September until March (253) should have
- September 1944 factory applied camouflage

Tiger IIs produced in March (30) should have
- November 1944 factory applied camouflage

Christian

DieDunkelheit
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Re: Help on painting King Tiger

Post by DieDunkelheit » 22 Apr 2014 03:45

Hello guys

i have a King Tiger Academy 1/35 and it doesnt show me where or which numers i have to put in my Tiger II im really confuse about it, because i try to search in any forum and show only picture of differents numbers. i version i want to made its Tiger Ausf. B, 3./s.Pz.Abt.511, Regershausen, Germany, May 1945. If you guys can help me with the numbers of which i need i will be really happy :lol:
Thanks

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KHeitmann
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Re: Help on painting King Tiger

Post by KHeitmann » 22 Apr 2014 17:33

DieDunkelheit wrote:Hello guys

i have a King Tiger Academy 1/35 and it doesnt show me where or which numers i have to put in my Tiger II im really confuse about it, because i try to search in any forum and show only picture of differents numbers. i version i want to made its Tiger Ausf. B, 3./s.Pz.Abt.511, Regershausen, Germany, May 1945. If you guys can help me with the numbers of which i need i will be really happy :lol:
Thanks
"3./" refers to the third company, so your tank would have numbers that start with a "3", such as 301, 302 (headquarters), 311-314 1st zug (platoon), 321-324 2nd zug, 331-334 3rd zug.

Numbers were typically on the side of the turret, sometimes it was accompanied by a "balkenkruez" in front, above, or after it. There are some instances where only balkenkruez was applied to the turret sides and the number was painted on the rear turret hatch door.

Some late war tanks had no numbers or crosses displayed.

German Sd. Kfz. 182 PzKpfw VI King Tiger Ausf. B Heavy Tank - schwere Panzer Abteilung 511, Germany, April 1945
Image

Schwere Panzer Abteilung 511 ( 511th heavy tank battalion) was created on 5 Jan 1945 when the Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 was reorganized. 21 Jan 1945 elements of the 511 were shipped to Pillau. 1./ handed over its last 10 Tigers to 2./ on 13 Feb 1945 and was re-equipped with Hetzers. The 3./ was disbanded on 19 April 1945 after minor combat.

So the third company no longer existed in May, 1945.

502/511 was under the command of Hauptmann von Förster from August 1944 to April 1945.
If your sword is too short, take one step forward. - Japanese proverb

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BillHermann
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Re:

Post by BillHermann » 23 Apr 2014 05:34

Jagdtiger-T-U wrote:Hi,

O I C! Sorry for my ignorance on WWII history. Thanks anyway!


I am planning to buy Dragon Model Kit: Karl Series. I've heard that you have to glue tracks one by one together, is there a company that sells chained rubber tracks that can fit on the Karl Series?

Thanks
Jagd
Why waste the money on a complex kit if you do not want the challenge and realism of linked tracks

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KHeitmann
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Re: Help on painting King Tiger

Post by KHeitmann » 23 Apr 2014 05:53

Instead of rubber or even the vinyl plastic tracks that come with most kits, look into getting some metal tracks.

1/35 FRIULMODEL ATL-85 METAL TRACK MORSER KARL Late for DRAGON TRUMPETER Kits

And more accessories to dress up your Dragon model.
If your sword is too short, take one step forward. - Japanese proverb

chumpo
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Re: tu

Post by chumpo » 30 Apr 2014 03:59

Jagdtiger-T-U wrote:Hi, thanks for replying. Is there any good paint strippers that you guys suggests? Since I've painted all my tanks panzer gray with black and gray stripes. My budget is pretty average, I have 200 dollars right now just for modeling.

Thanks

Jagd
Don't need to strip , consider the panzer gray a primer coat just go over that with dark yellow .

Mechiel_
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Re: Help on painting King Tiger

Post by Mechiel_ » 31 Aug 2018 22:10

Hello,

I need also help with painting my tiger II. Where there tigers in summer 1944 who where painted yellow without camouflage? There are so many camp patterns so I can’t choose one.

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