The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

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j keenan
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The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#1

Post by j keenan » 21 Sep 2017, 14:21

The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division Florian Geyer by Massimiliano Afiero
A book that skips over the truth right from the introduction,skims over its early years and it's use in the Holocaust with the usual euphemisms of anti-partisan operations.The book then goes on to cover it's heroic operations in the front line and destruction in Budapest.
If you are going to buy this book you should buy it in conjunction with Fegelein's Horsemen and Genocidal Warfare by Henning Peiper which gives a far better understanding of the units beginnings and deployments upto 1942.

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#2

Post by John P. Moore » 22 Sep 2017, 21:23

I agree with Jamie's assessment. These W-SS books by Afiero appear to lack depth and add nothing of significance to books that other authors have previously written on the same subjects. Poorly researched and fewer pages of text, even though he touts his books as a "definitive history". On another forum I asked Afiero if his book on the SS Kavallerie covered its involvement with the SD Einsatzgruppen and I received an evasive answer. These books appear to fall within the realm of "SS Porn". Save your money. This author should devote his energy to writing something original that is thoroughly researched.


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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#3

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 24 Sep 2017, 10:04

John P. Moore wrote:I agree with Jamie's assessment. These W-SS books by Afiero appear to lack depth and add nothing of significance to books that other authors have previously written on the same subjects. Poorly researched and fewer pages of text, even though he touts his books as a "definitive history". On another forum I asked Afiero if his book on the SS Kavallerie covered its involvement with the SD Einsatzgruppen and I received an evasive answer. These books appear to fall within the realm of "SS Porn". Save your money. This author should devote his energy to writing something original that is thoroughly researched.
Nothing, to add, John! :thumbsup:

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#4

Post by Waffen211 » 21 Oct 2017, 15:18

You too, John should dedicate your energies to doing something else and not just to criticize the books of others without reading them. What did you write about the subject? What books did you write?

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The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#5

Post by Waffen211 » 21 Oct 2017, 15:23

The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division ”Florian Geyer”: An Illustrated History

by Massimiliano Afiero

Formed in 1942, the 8th SS Cavalry Division “Florian Geyer” was one of the most controversial units in the Waffen-SS. Created with the intention of making it an elite unit within the Waffen-SS, it instead saw its main employment from the beginning of the war in Russia as a rear area security force against partisans. The SS cavalrymen carried out these duties with terrible effectiveness, demonstrating the full capabilities of horse-mounted units in securing terrain that was militarily difficult. Late in the war, “Florian Geyer” was employed on the front lines against regular units of the Red Army. The unit was wiped out during final battle of Budapest in February 1945. Detailed operational history, rare combat images, maps, and personality profiles make this book the complete history of “Florian Geyer.”

Size: 9″ x 12″ | 385 b/w photos | 160 pp
ISBN13: 9780764353260 | Binding: hard cover

http://www.schifferbooks.com/the-8th-wa ... -6245.html

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#6

Post by Waffen211 » 21 Oct 2017, 21:05

j keenan wrote:The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division Florian Geyer by Massimiliano Afiero
A book that skips over the truth right from the introduction,skims over its early years and it's use in the Holocaust with the usual euphemisms of anti-partisan operations.The book then goes on to cover it's heroic operations in the front line and destruction in Budapest.
If you are going to buy this book you should buy it in conjunction with Fegelein's Horsemen and Genocidal Warfare by Henning Peiper which gives a far better understanding of the units beginnings and deployments upto 1942.
Can an author choose which topics to deal with in his book? The book focuses on the strictly military use of the division, what is the problem?

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#7

Post by John P. Moore » 29 Oct 2017, 02:08

Actually, I have read this book and thoroughly studied the content. Here is the review that I recently posted on Amazon.

"The text of this book is well-written and the English translations of the many German documents cited in the book is excellent. It is an easy book to read. This 160-page book provides an abbreviated history of the division from its roots in the riding schools of the 1930s to its actions in Poland in 1939, the June 1941 invasion of the Soviet Union, reorganizations and later combat in Russia through its end in Budapest in 1945. I did not see very many new previously unpublished photos and many of the photos in the book suffered from low resolution and darkness.

The notion of SS Cavalry gallantly charging across the plains of Russia to do battle with the enemy is a truly romantic concept. However, the truth concerning the SS-Kavellerie Brigade’s actions is far from the images of glory that have been created about this formation since the beginning of its actions. One has to drill deeply down from the code words in documents, SS propaganda and post-war revisionist writing to get at the truth.

Unfortunately, the author appears to have limited his research to only those sources that provide a favorable image of the SS cavalry. This book completely overlooks the deliberate mass murder of tens of thousands of Jewish men, women and children in a manner akin to the Einsatzgruppen. One example is the murder of 7,000 – 8,000 Jews in the town of Pinsk in August 1941 by SS-Kavallerie Rgt.2. The Ritterkreuzträger Gustav Lombard reported that his SS-Kavallerie Rgt.1 executed 6,450 Jews and 411 Red Army men up to 11 August 1941. I don’t understand how a serious writer could overlook these atrocities while focusing on “anti-partisan” actions and battle with “looters”. However, the repeated references to partisans in this book and in German after-action reports can be better understood by taking note of this comment made by Gustav Lombard in September 1941 at a joint-service anti-partisan conference hosted by Herres Gruppe Mitte, “The Jew is the Partisan!” These crimes and many others are established by the extensive records of investigations and judicial action of the post-war German legal system against leading SS cavalry members maintained by the Bundesarchiv Aussenstelle, Ludwigsburg. There is no indication that the author consulted the records of that archive.

The widespread atrocities and brutality committed by nearly all members of the SS cavalry, even cooks and clerks, during the early part of the war reflects so negatively on the on this unit’s membership to make them completely unworthy of any future glory. Yet, throughout the book the author constantly attempts to glorify these murderers with his prose. He even refers to the “Tragic End of Herman Fegelein”. What could be tragic about the death of a mass murderer?

The effort that the author put into this book was clear, but it could have been so much better if a more objective approach had been taken and such excellent references as these being consulted,

Pieper, Henning Fegelein’s Horsemen and Genocidal Warfare, 2014
Cüppers, M., Wegbereiter der Shoah: die Waffen-SS, der Kommandostab
Reichsführer-SS und die Judenvernichtung 1939 – 1945, 2005

I do not recommend this book because it lacks objectivity, appears to be poorly researched and does not present a complete story of the SS cavalry."

The doctoral version of Henning Peiper`s highly recommended book can be downloaded here –

http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/2911/1/Dissertation.pdf

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#8

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 29 Oct 2017, 11:38

Thanks for the Link, John!

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#9

Post by MAMC » 29 Oct 2017, 15:21

I was about to buy all this series, but having read these comments I feel I will now pass on this purchase. I must admit I was a little sceptical of the short treatment of the various Divisions to begin with anyway, but the above comments have given me an extra insight, if the 8th is anything to go on.....
Roll on the publication of "TIGER VOL.3" the next monster book from Trojca......
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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#10

Post by Waffen211 » 29 Oct 2017, 17:09

The author in his book has not absolutely omitted to speak of the crimes committed by Florian Geyer against civilian populations on the Eastern front, perhaps Mr Moore read another book. There have certainly been many pages dedicated to the subject, there are many other books that have already done so, since it is the author who decides which topics to deal with in his book. In addition, the book of SS riders was not exaggerated in the book, only the facts were reported. The story must be told not interpreted. I do not think Mr. Moore can teach something to others, since he did not publish a good thing on the subject.

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#11

Post by Waffen211 » 29 Oct 2017, 17:15

Preface of the book

Preface

The Florian Geyer Division crystallized around it all that represented the worst as well as the best of the SS. The worst related to the massacres it committed during the summer and autumn of 1941, and the best because of the valor it demonstrated in battle when called to the front line. The apogee of its military story ended tragically amidst the ruins of Budapest, an apogee that took the form of a waning sunset. And it was thus that its most important battle was also its last battle, a useless sacrifice that heralded the apocalypse of the Third Reich. The battles of Toropez during the terrible winter of 1941-1942, however, should not be forgotten, nor should those that were fought west of Orel during the course of 1943 nor on the plains of Hungary in the autumn of 1944, defensive battles which saw the division fight with steadfast tenacity. It is therefore indispensable that its history be told in order to shed light on some little known episodes of the Second World War.

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#12

Post by j keenan » 29 Oct 2017, 18:04

Waffen211 wrote:Preface of the book

Preface

The Florian Geyer Division crystallized around it all that represented the worst as well as the best of the SS. The worst related to the massacres it committed during the summer and autumn of 1941, and the best because of the valor it demonstrated in battle when called to the front line. The apogee of its military story ended tragically amidst the ruins of Budapest, an apogee that took the form of a waning sunset. And it was thus that its most important battle was also its last battle, a useless sacrifice that heralded the apocalypse of the Third Reich. The battles of Toropez during the terrible winter of 1941-1942, however, should not be forgotten, nor should those that were fought west of Orel during the course of 1943 nor on the plains of Hungary in the autumn of 1944, defensive battles which saw the division fight with steadfast tenacity. It is therefore indispensable that its history be told in order to shed light on some little known episodes of the Second World War.

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#13

Post by Waffen211 » 29 Oct 2017, 19:15

Last comment: I would like to acknowledge the comments made by Mr. Moore in his review of this book, and put them in what I consider to be a more proper perspective. I would invite Mr. Moore and any other readers to refer to the Preface and my own Introduction, in which it is clearly stated that the Division engaged in massacres and the Division had a troubled history and that its actions are worthy of condemnation. I am in no way an apologist for the abominable actions of this Division. It is true that I chose not to delve deeply into the details of these horrific crimes; my focus was meant to be on the combat operations of the Division. The atrocities committed by “Florian Geyer” are amply documented in other works. My intent was neither to glorify nor present a “favorable image” of the Division, but rather to accurately chronicle its combat activities and achievements.

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#14

Post by j keenan » 29 Oct 2017, 21:14

You make no reference to the Reich Commissariat Ukraine action in 43 ?

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Re: The 8th Waffen-SS Cavalry Division

#15

Post by Adler Heinz » 08 Jan 2018, 06:24

I have bought 3 (Florian Geyer, Nord and Nederland) books of this "Illustrated..." series almost 4 weeks ago, overall it's a useful books series, especially for the photos posted in the books. We need to look forward, because can be helpful not only for passionate readers of battle/divisional history of a division, but even for that peoples which have passion for reenactment or other. Good but not the best for that peoples which want to know all, regarding SS history divisions. 8/10.

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