That is what you missing becouse you can't read Russian:)

[Oleg Grigoryev]

- "Agony and Death of Adolf Hitler"- Volume of highly classified materials from Central Archive of FSB. Consists of general fieldmarshal Shroenr testimonies, testimonies chief of Hitler personal security, gruppnefurer SS Rautenbach, testimonies chief of of Berlin’s central defense area general Monke, testimonies Hitler’s personal doctor Haaze, tetstemonies of member of Imperial Chancellery security service Megenshauzena.. etc



- pretty much Borman’s personal journal

[David C. Clarke]

Oh Oleg, haven't I been tortured enough because I can't read German either!!???
Promise me if you run across anything relevant to the "Muncheberg" thread that you'll post it? Please? Very Best Regards, David

[Andy H]

Oleg

Being a lazy Englishman who can read German in a fashion is there any hope that the myriad of Russian publications being translated into English, especially the volumnous Great Patriotic War with all the political back slapping removed so we can better understand the Russian side of the story, leaving Glantz aside

Andy from the Shire

[Oleg Grigoryev]

Oleg

Being a lazy Englishman who can read German in a fashion is there any hope that the myriad of Russian publications being translated into English, especially the volumnous Great Patriotic War with all the political back slapping removed so we can better understand the Russian side of the story, leaving Glantz aside

Andy from the Shire

only lazy Englishman can consider Glanzt a Russian side of the stroy:) I don't think it is gonna happen - nobody is really interested in the "other side of the hill" - too many streotypes to breake.

[David C. Clarke]

I don't think it is gonna happen - nobody is really interested in the "other side of the hill" - too many streotypes to breake

Hi Oleg, I think you're wrong, more than that, I think this is exactly the time when such information would sell. Russia and the West are growing closer. Many people who wouldn't have read anything about the Red Army ten years ago are dying for information about the old Soviet Union. The first author to really gain access, have a good interpreter and be able to tell a decent story will end up bigger than Glantz. It's all a matter of how the information is packaged now, since the ideological barriers have fallen. Best Regards, David
(P.S. A good example are the two books I bought recently: one was "Red Wings over the Yalu" about Chinese and Russian jet fighter pilots in the Korean War. The other was the "Official History of the Vietnam War" published by the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. Ten years ago neither book would have been available, now Amazon.com and barnes & Noble are carrying them.)

[Oleg Grigoryev]

I don't think it is gonna happen - nobody is really interested in the "other side of the hill" - too many streotypes to breake

Hi Oleg, I think you're wrong, more than that, I think this is exactly the time when such information would sell. Russia and the West are growing closer. Many people who wouldn't have read anything about the Red Army ten years ago are dying for information about the old Soviet Union. The first author to really gain access, have a good interpreter and be able to tell a decent story will end up bigger than Glantz. It's all a matter of how the information is packaged now, since the ideological barriers have fallen. Best Regards, David
(P.S. A good example are the two books I bought recently: one was "Red Wings over the Yalu" about Chinese and Russian jet fighter pilots in the Korean War. The other was the "Official History of the Vietnam War" published by the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. Ten years ago neither book would have been available, now Amazon.com and barnes & Noble are carrying them.)

I don’t know David Guderain Memories get to be reprinted on regular basis –if you got to Boreders you are dfenely going to find a copy, same goes for von Miletin and Rauss, Nanshetin is a bit harder to find but still possible , how often do memories of Soviet Generals get to be published (and they were translated a whiel ago)? And that goes for all German narratives – on the Russian side you are lucky to find Losa – and that because he thought in Sherman. Neither Kozhedub nor Pokrishkin memoriesn ever made it here.

[David C. Clarke]

Hi Oleg, I see your point, but for me, the best types of books are books either on a specific campaign or a particular armored vehicle. On the last one, people in this country are so hungry for new images of different vehicles that even books whose text are in Russian are selling, though admittedly to modelers.
As far as campaign books, Glantz is hot becaue he promises and delivers accurate Russian OOB's and strategies. Where he's weak is on the story-telling aspect of it, with few personal accounts and brief descriptions of the personalities involved.
Americans love heroic stories--look at the success in the U.S. of the latest movie on the sniper at Stalingrad. Many of the events on the Russian Front would make Epic reading if the right writer with good sources told the story.
I guarantee you, with the right telling and enough information, a Russian Hero like Vatutin could be the subject of a best selling history and become as internationally known as Manstein! With enough material, Bagration could become as well known a story as Kursk.
What prevents writers in this country from tackling these subjects aren't ideological differences or disinterest or a feeling that the story won't sell.
It's the language barrier and the inability to obtain source materials. Best Regards, David

[Oleg Grigoryev]

well consider this http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846

form the single review there is, I got the impression that this person was rathher impressed. Now consider when it was published - 1978 and that is it.

[David C. Clarke]

Hi Oleg, you're talking with a guy who has that book, Koniev's book and Zhukov's two-volume memoirs. I've scoured the shops for anything printed by "Progress Press".
I think the only difference between myself and the average consumer is that I've had military history as a hobby for a long time. The average
reader needs to encounter a history book that can't be called "Soviet Propaganda", which is why Glantz is so popular.
I've always thought that the Germans won the battle of the memoirs for
these reasons:
1. German memoirs appear to be even-handed, as they admit defeat (You and I know that this isn't the best way of measuring fairness, but it's enough for a lot of people.
2. German memoirs tend to be emotional.
3. German memoirs have generally escaped being connected to an existing regime.
4. Soveit memoirs have been dismissed for years as "communist propaganda". Those available in the west were usually writte by Generals who were in favor with the Communist State.
5. Published German memoirs have appeared from men of all ranks. (This gives the illusion that they were fighting for a Western style democracy that allowed free speech.
6. Western governments encouraged the study of Wehrmacht memoirs. (In semi-official publications like "Armor" magazine, for instance.
7. The volume of Russian memoirs over the years was very, very small, which allowed anti-Soviet historians who relied on German memoirs to essentially shape the image of the Red Army without any Russian input.
I could go on, but the point I'm making is that you can't judge what will be read or bought by the public by looking at anything published in the Soviet Union before the end of the Cold War.

Also, I don't understand why Russians are so slow to pick up the challenge of making their heroes and stories as famous as the Germans have made theirs. Is the Red Army to forever remain a faceless, nameless horde who only beat the Germans with sheer numbers??????

As an African-American, I can tell you from my people's experience that when other ethnic groups control the compilation and distribution of your history, you will suffer for it and your heroes will remain unknown and without the admiration and respect they deserve!
Best Regards, David

[Andy H]

Hi Oleg & David

Some great points made by both of you and I like David have several books published by Progress which I bought to try and give me a perception of the other side of the hill, which according to Oleg

nobody is really interested in the "other side of the hill" - too many streotypes to breake.

. Well thats the whole point.
To understand any conflict you need a rounded and balanced arguement and available source material, presently it is woeful from the Russia side.

Yes Glantz has his faults but better his books with there faults than nothing at all.

Come o Oleg get your mates asking and get some Divisional histories put out in English, but please leave all the propoganda aside.

Andy (Always trying to see the other side of the Hill)

[Oleg Grigoryev]

ah Geraman memories... here is the summary form my point of view


1. Hitler always hindered our plans . Hitler was an idiot. German soldier rules forever !!!. Every German commander is like Frederic der Grosser but without bad habits.
2. Russians overwhelmed us with cannon fodder. Russians had a lot of it. Russian soldier is a child of nature – he eats whatever can’t run from him, he can sleep standing – as a horse, and he can infiltrate. We with our own eyes saw how entire Russian tank armies managed to infiltrate the frontline – and nothing gave it away – just yesterday it was simply an artillery barrage, aerial bombardment, Russian offensive , and oops – it is a Russian tank army in our rear.
3. SS sometimes overdid it. Meaning if we limited ourselves to common pillage, executions, rape and destruction which sometimes were cased by German soldier, from the abundance of Arian power, much more people would accept new order with pleasure.
4. Russian had t-34. That was not fair because we did not have anything like that.
5. Russian had many antitank guns. Every Russian had its own antitank gun – he was hiding it in pit holes, hollows, in the grass and under tree roots.
6. Russian had many Mongols and Turkmen. Mongols and Turkmen when supported by Commissars are horrible thing
7. Russians had commissars. Commissars are horrible thing . By definition. Most of the commissars were Jews. Even dirty Jews. We unthinkingly killed our own Jews. Himler was an idiot.
8. Russian did not fight fare they imitated surrender and then shot German soldiers in the back. Once the entire Russian tank crop surrendered and then shot in the back German heavy tank battalion.
9. Russians killed German soldiers. That was not fair, because it was German soldier who was supposed to kill Russians. All Russian are morons
10. .Allies betrayed us – meaning American and British.

[Andy H]

Not sure where your going with this Oleg, not everyone believes in stereotypes

Andy from the Shire

[David C. Clarke]

Well hold on a minute Oleg! You wrote:

Every Russian had his own antitank gun

I always thought that was TRUE! I think Stalin said it himself!!!


Seriuosly though, you know that Andy and I and a lot of other folks would like good accounts from the Red Army of Workers and Peasants. Best Regards, David

[Oleg Grigoryev]

Andy I am being sardonic –it was not aimed at anybody in particular. It is going to be farley difficult to convince Russian publishers to print something here – even now. Firstly they don’t believe that wide enough western audience is going to be interested in Russian side of story - Films like enemy at the Gates or Stalingrad lo leave bitter taste in mouths of Russians veterans (my granddad’s older brother who is in his 90s now was an infantry lieutenant in Stalingard, was wounded there came back in time to join fighting during g citadel and was wounded second time during defense of Balaton, was trembling with anger when he came from the theater after seeing ETAG). Logic is since they spent THAT much money to make this kind of history movie (or book) , they probably not interested in what happened from our point of view, so why bother printing book if only most involved people are going to read – they do have to make money. Also Russian history studding is such a disperse thing now that it is not exactly clear what to publish - there is no unified view. So most people for now would still have to do with “Russia’s heroes” and such , well plus with an effort of guys from http://www.irememebr.ru

[David C. Clarke]

Okay Oleg, I admit the joke wasn't that funny. But if you're not talking to me, just say so and I won't bother to post.
~David