That is what you missing becouse you can't read Russian:)

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#16

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 16 Nov 2002, 03:43

David C. Clarke wrote:Okay Oleg, I admit the joke wasn't that funny. But if you're not talking to me, just say so and I won't bother to post.
~David
no David - I got the joke -don't worry:) - it was in fact the reaction I expected:)

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Andy H
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#17

Post by Andy H » 16 Nov 2002, 12:31

Economic realities of course are a part of publishing and I'm sure that when people were thinking of publishing German accounts of the war etc in Britain after WW2 they were sceptical of its take up, but from acorns do Oak trees grow.

If Russian publishing houses are struggling surely they could approach Western military publishers to target the specific audience first and eventually the larger reading public.

This is the only way (Internet-maybe?) that the Russian contribution will be more fully understood in the West and so Russian authors etc will then stop carping on about how we in the West underplay the Russian role.

Don't shoot the messenger Oleg I'm desperate to learn more.

:D Andy from the Shire


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Oleg Grigoryev
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#18

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 16 Nov 2002, 23:41

:0) look what I found :) Image
Andrei Antonovich Grechko was born on October 17, 1905 into the family of a farmer in Rostov Region.

Entering the Soviet Army in 1919 he fought in the Civil War as a Red Armyman, platoon commander and squadron commander in the First Cavalry Army. In 1936 he graduated from the Frunze Military Academy and in 1941 from the Military Academy of the General Staff.

During the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945 he first commanded a cavalry division and then a cavalry corps (1941); in April 1942 he was appointed Commander of the 12th Army and subsequently commanded the 47th, 18th and 56th Armies; in October 1943 he was posted Deputy Commander of the 1st Ukrainian Front, and beginning from December 1943 until the end of the war commanded the 1st Guards Army which took part in liberating the Ukraine's territory west of the Dnieper and participated in the Lvov-Sandomir, Uzhgorod and Moravska-Ostrawa operations.

In the period from 1945 to 1953 he was Commander of the Kiev Military District. From 1953 to 1957 he was in charge of the Soviet forces in Germany and from November 1957 was First Deputy Minister of Defense of the USSR and Commander- in-Chief of the Land Forces. In April 1960 he was appointed Commander-in-Chief of the United Forces of the Warsaw Treaty Organization. He was appointed Minister of Defense of the USSR in 1967.

In 1955 he was promoted Marshal of the Soviet Union and in 1958 was made Hero of the Soviet Union. He was deputy to the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. He has been decorated with numerous Soviet and foreign orders and medals.
availablet through amazon - enjoy:)

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Juha Hujanen
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#19

Post by Juha Hujanen » 17 Nov 2002, 17:30

I did find from antiquariat Andrei Crechko's -Battle for the Caucasus.The Author was Marchal of SU and book is from 1971.Haven't read it yet,what's your's opinion of book?

Chears Juha

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#20

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 17 Nov 2002, 22:57

Juha Hujanen wrote:I did find from antiquariat Andrei Crechko's -Battle for the Caucasus.The Author was Marchal of SU and book is from 1971.Haven't read it yet,what's your's opinion of book?

Chears Juha

if it is a new book (as posted above) it probably differs considerably from the one you found. Example: my Grand dead had the first edition of Zhukov's memories (3 volume), I bought supposedly the same book but printed 15 years later. My had an interesting feature all passages that were cut out from the original by censure were put in this one and identified by use of italic. My impression was that all the italic text could have made a 4th volume -anyway my 3 volumes were considerably thicker than my granddad 3 volumes. So I suggest that you go for the newer version. Chances are that you going to run into what usually called Soviet propaganda (glory to the party blah blah balh –etc) - you will have to learn to ignore them (much the same way I learn to ignore – “Russians are primitive beasts” in German memories)

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#21

Post by David C. Clarke » 18 Nov 2002, 01:57

Well now I'm ticked! My Progress Press English version of Zhukov's memoirs was only two volumes!!!! Oleg, do you know if there is a book in English about my hero Vatutin? Best Regards, David :D

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#22

Post by Juha Hujanen » 18 Nov 2002, 17:31

Thanks Oleg.I didn't notice yours earlier post of Crechko's book :oops:
Mine copy is earlier version and obviously written with "style" of that time.Should be interesting anyway.Are you aware Russian books of war against Finland?.In English or Finnish.I know only Platono's book and Kuprijanov's-Ot Barentseva Morja Do Ladogi,which are both translated to Finnish.It would be interesting to know from"other side of the hill" too.


Regards Juha

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#23

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 19 Nov 2002, 07:27

Juha Hujanen wrote:Thanks Oleg.I didn't notice yours earlier post of Crechko's book :oops:
Mine copy is earlier version and obviously written with "style" of that time.Should be interesting anyway.Are you aware Russian books of war against Finland?.In English or Finnish.I know only Platono's book and Kuprijanov's-Ot Barentseva Morja Do Ladogi,which are both translated to Finnish.It would be interesting to know from"other side of the hill" too.


Regards Juha
well you could try this one Stalin and the Soviet-Finnish War, 1939-1940 (Cass Series on the Soviet (Russian) Study of War)
by E. N. Kulkov (Editor), O A Rzheshevsky (Editor)


Hardcover: 301 pages
Publisher: Intl Specialized Book Service; ISBN: 0714652032; (January 2002)


Rzheshevskiy seems to be a serious historian although as I said before there is no monolith view on the events in question among Russian historians. There is also joint work by Finish and Russian historians which in Russia called Finnish War – the political history. Finnish name is slightly different. On the other forum some Finns I talked to said that they have generally favorable view of that book.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#24

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 19 Nov 2002, 08:29

David C. Clarke wrote:Well now I'm ticked! My Progress Press English version of Zhukov's memoirs was only two volumes!!!! Oleg, do you know if there is a book in English about my hero Vatutin? Best Regards, David :D
No But there is one in Russian :D Image
btw he would celebrate his 100 birthday this year if he lived that long

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Scott Smith
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#25

Post by Scott Smith » 19 Nov 2002, 08:52

Oleg's synopsis of German memoirs made me laugh out loud. There is a lot of truth there.
:)

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#26

Post by Birgitte Heuschkel » 19 Nov 2002, 11:28

Honestly, me too. Someone do a similar set for the other fighting forces. Pwetty pwease.

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Juha Hujanen
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#27

Post by Juha Hujanen » 19 Nov 2002, 18:03

Thanks for the tip Oleg.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#28

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 20 Nov 2002, 23:43


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#29

Post by Toivo » 21 Nov 2002, 12:26

Greetings Oleg (and others),
I have read books mostly by soviet historians, few by higher commanders (generals and colonels) and even less by low-ranked officers or soldiers. At 50s, they were praising Staling, at 60-70s they were scolding Stalin and Beria and praising Party, at 80s... well you can imagine. I got bored and haven't read much after Soviet Union scrumbled. But I have heard books in Russia are not very expensive, which is good...but then again, I haven't used russian much recently and would have hard time reading them.
You are right about memoirs by Germans. Too emotional and all that c**p for memoirs, even soviet fictional books were less emotional.
I prefer reading memoirs of finns and estonians in either wehrmacht or red army (few generals and colonels were in red army).
But about waffen-ss... I think that was all about certain units and formations. Some were more fighters than others, some were close to bandits. Those units had highest precentage of volunteers, you can imagine
how many shady characters there were - convicts, soldiers of fortune, sick guys just.
But you forgott soviet units which were pretty much same. Punishment battalions (scorched earth, killing own nations and destroying buildings when retreating), NKVD&Beria (all those stupid arguments about panic to excecute higher officers) and acts of red army (guess just some certains characters or units) in Budabest, Berlin etc driven mad by soviet propaganda since 1942, raping and killing (unless Anthony Beevor and others are totally wrong). I think you can find acting of certains individuals and units under some commander very familiar on both sides. :|

Regards

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#30

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 22 Nov 2002, 00:52

Anthony Beevor has his points, however my problem with him is that he still does not explain how number of rapes by Soviets was calculated (usually it is “It has been counted blah-blah” – not by whom, how and when) and that he has ignored Soviet documents that prohibited rape and pillage. It seems to me that he was trying to score some selling points with wider audience – which is not necessarily interested in history, but in some sexual “pulp fiction” -pity.
Last edited by Oleg Grigoryev on 22 Nov 2002, 03:24, edited 4 times in total.

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