Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

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Sid Guttridge
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by Sid Guttridge » 14 Oct 2011 11:17

Hi PGW,

I opened one chapter randomly, to be presented with the implication that Argentina's gold reserves grew during the war because of Nazi gold.

No. Argentina's gold reserves rose massively during the war because it sold enormous amounts of beef, grain, leather, etc. to the Allies, the British in particular. Although diplomatically neutral (much to US annoyance), in economic terms, Argentina was a major asset to the Allies, and even subsidised the British war effort by deferring payment for much of this until after the war.

Your sentence construction implies that the rise in Argentine gold reserves was due to an influx of Nazi gold, but shies away from saying it explicitly. Please clarify. Are you saying directly that the massive rise in Argentine gold reserves was due to Nazi gold?

And is this an example of your analytical detachment: "Of course governments lie all the time Tony Blair and WMD in Iraq comes to mind as one shining example."? Tony Blair was undoubtedly wrong that Saddam Hussein still had WMDs. But so was every other government and intelligence agency, including those of countries that opposed the occupation of Iraq. Why? Because Saddam Hussein had tried to develop several sorts of WMDs, had actually used some of them on the battlefield against Iran and Kurdish civilians, he had obstructed the UN inspection teams and hadn't been able to account for all the raw materials imported for their creation. I have little respect for Tony Blair, and he was clearly wrong in this case, but then so was almost everyone else. Passing off opinion as fact does not impriove your general credibility.

Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions. However, not all opinions are of equal value. Asserting your right to an opinion doesn't add any weight to your case at all.

Mark Costa
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by Mark Costa » 14 Oct 2011 12:50

Gerrard:

I appreciate your comments but who is making things up me or you. Your sources do not hold water. They have been discussed and anazlyzed before by many others. In regards to your responses, Mohnke did not see Fegelein shot but others did. Seeing a pilot waiting for a plane means nothing. Baumgart's story has been disputed since 1945 and has been disproved. OK so instead of documents from Brazil there are some from Argentina - so what -- I can call the police right now and say I just saw Richard Nixon at the Motel Six and they would have to write up a report about it. Now 50 years from now someone can go through the files and see my report and say "There see, an eveywitness says Nixon was alive in 2011". The national archives, FBI files and thousands of police cities around world have tons of similiar "reports" that could be used to state that Jimmy Hoffa or Jimmy Morrison is alive and well.

In regards to the photos of March 20, 1945 I suggest you view the thread on this forum about those photos and tell me that is Hitler's double. You mention that the double had a nervous tick in the left arm -- so did Hitler !! And by the way this nervous tick in Hitler's arm can also been seen in other movies which clearly show AH -- such as his visit only weeks before to the Oder Front -- or is that a double too ??

I am sorry but discussing V-weapons and all those other non-essential topics was not putting things in "context" it was called "filler" in my mind, to stretch your book out, as you only had about 100 pages of the story of Hitler's escape.

And in regards to Bormann -- again show me just ONE reputable research laboratory that states the DNA findings are flawed!! Just one -- not a response of "if you wish to believe the German Government ... but from our research..."

You need real evidence not just "conclusions based deductive research". Sorry I did not like your book. This is the last that I will discuss thsi topics -- I do not wish to waste more of my time. Also I do not appreciate you copying my comments here on this forum and pasting them on Amazon without my persmission.

Mark Costa

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by Sid Guttridge » 14 Oct 2011 18:12

Oh, Joy! Oh, Bliss!

A five star review of this book has appeared on Amazon by an anonymous but self-proclaimed friend of one of the authors, who has never apparently reviewed anything on Amazon before.

I shall forebear from from delving further into this happy string of coincidences and simply say;

Read and enjoy:

5.0 out of 5 stars
"Simply sensational! a stunning piece of journalism" ., 7 Oct 2011
By crobcole (Bolton, UK)
This review is from: Grey Wolf: The Escape of Adolf Hitler (Hardcover)
As a journalist, I'm a natural cynic, and when I first got my hands on a copy of Grey Wolf, I was preparing to rip it apart. It was going to be simple job. The co-authors were claiming that somehow they had unearthed a truth. A truth which every other leading historian had failed to do over the last six decades. They had spent five years of their lives proving - they say - that the most evil, despised and hated man of the 20th century, Adolph Hitler, didn't die by his own hand in his dingy bunker under Berlin in 1945. Oh no. According to this pair, Hitler and many of his henchmen escaped to South America. The hideous dictator - murderer of six million Jews - died in 1962 in bed, peacefully. Oh yeh. Sure!
Before I go on, I must declare an interest here. I've known one of the authors, Gerrard Williams, for many years. We were colleagues at Reuters Television and he is a very accomplished journalist. Our friendship was going to make it all the more difficult to pan his book, but it had to be done.... Or so I thought.
Well, I finished it last night and it's simply a triumph. My natural scepticism has been well and truly blown apart. In the words of that 60's boy band, The Monkees, I'm a believer.
The staggering attention to detail is what you first notice about Grey Wolf. Every fact, every argument, is checked, double-checked and cross-referenced. Nothing has been left to chance. You can see why it took five years to put all this together. It's journalism at its best and is a thumping good read to boot.
It would be a brilliant novel on the lines of a Robert Harris classic, but this is not fantasy. The authors truly believe they have discovered something which is going to change history and who am I to argue? The claims may seem fantastic, incredible even, but they all make perfect sense. Hitler's dramatic escape is explained and proved all the way from Berlin to Bariloche, in Southern Argentina. It's a rattling good read and the fact that there's a very good chance this is was what really happened makes it all the better.
There's always going to be an element of doubt, but the authors have unearthed more facts than anyone else ever has about what happened to the Fuhrer and his horrible henchmen. It's going to cause a lot of controversy but it's one that simply has to be read - tremendous stuff.


I certainly agree with one thing - we are discussing journalism here, not historiography. One adheres to rather lower standards of evidence than the other. I'll leave you, gentle reader, to guess which!

projectgreywolf
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by projectgreywolf » 14 Oct 2011 20:15

What is your problem? His Name's Rob Cole, he's from Bolton. Ex BBC, WTN, SKY News. An award-winning Journalist.
Sid, He's known me and worked with me for 20-odd years. Covered wars, civil unrest, all around the globe. . These comments are just rude and add nothing to the discussion.
Check out the other reviews on Amazon.com, and stop criticising people who have done more than most.
Attack me when you have read the book. Otherwise, Really, you and your semantics should just be quiet, for a change. I won't bother to reply to any more of your posts. You are a very sad figure mate.

projectgreywolf
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by projectgreywolf » 14 Oct 2011 20:24

Mark Costa wrote:Gerrard:

I appreciate your comments but who is making things up me or you. Your sources do not hold water. They have been discussed and anazlyzed before by many others. In regards to your responses, Mohnke did not see Fegelein shot but others did. Seeing a pilot waiting for a plane means nothing. Baumgart's story has been disputed since 1945 and has been disproved. OK so instead of documents from Brazil there are some from Argentina - so what -- I can call the police right now and say I just saw Richard Nixon at the Motel Six and they would have to write up a report about it. Now 50 years from now someone can go through the files and see my report and say "There see, an eveywitness says Nixon was alive in 2011". The national archives, FBI files and thousands of police cities around world have tons of similiar "reports" that could be used to state that Jimmy Hoffa or Jimmy Morrison is alive and well.

In regards to the photos of March 20, 1945 I suggest you view the thread on this forum about those photos and tell me that is Hitler's double. You mention that the double had a nervous tick in the left arm -- so did Hitler !! And by the way this nervous tick in Hitler's arm can also been seen in other movies which clearly show AH -- such as his visit only weeks before to the Oder Front -- or is that a double too ??

I am sorry but discussing V-weapons and all those other non-essential topics was not putting things in "context" it was called "filler" in my mind, to stretch your book out, as you only had about 100 pages of the story of Hitler's escape.

And in regards to Bormann -- again show me just ONE reputable research laboratory that states the DNA findings are flawed!! Just one -- not a response of "if you wish to believe the German Government ... but from our research..."

You need real evidence not just "conclusions based deductive research". Sorry I did not like your book. This is the last that I will discuss thsi topics -- I do not wish to waste more of my time. Also I do not appreciate you copying my comments here on this forum and pasting them on Amazon without my persmission.

Mark Costa
My apologies for not asking your permission, but your review on Amazon was nowhere near as thorough as your review here, and it was so full of inaccuracies, it needed replying.
Obviously it would have been nice if your review had been accurate. But it wasn't, you seem to have just made things up which we never published. I'm astonished that you can read something and get so much wrong!
Your choice, but if you're going to rip me apart at least do it properly, and accurately. Vitriol is no replacement for sensible comment.

G

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Schlagermeister
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by Schlagermeister » 14 Oct 2011 21:04

Hi,

I'm new here in a way (never registered or posted), but I often visit to read what is on these forums. I finally found a big enough reason to post (I usually don't like online arguments and try to avoid them...). I have your new book Gerrard, and I am very glad to see that you peruse forums and actively discuss your work--I wish more authors would care that much about their audience to talk directly with them (as direct as an internet forum can get...lol). So my compliments for your efforts.

Anyway, my reason for posting is because I take issue with the date on the photograph of Hitler meeting with the Hitler Youth and giving them medals. It is dated as 20 March, 1945. Is this a totally different photo than what I am thinking of??? Because I'm quite sure that photo is from his birthday of that year--which would put it at 20 April, 1945. I also believe that to be rather well documented. Or is the photo you use to prove that was a double from a different but similar occasion that occured a month prior??? I found this extremely odd...I would like to here your thoughts on this.

Additionally, I'd like to say how I came across actually purchasing your book, which also leads me to another big question. I saw it in the store, saw the subtitle, and then dismissed it immediately, haha. I'm sure you can guess why. But a couple days later my mom called me up and told me how much she was enjoying it and that it could potentially be more legitimate that I would assume it to be. So, after having heard much about it from my mom, who reads a lot of history as well, I decided it would at least be worth reading for fun. I'll admit, I have not had enough free time (sadly :( ) to get very far into your book just yet. I am a history grad student at the moment at JMU, so have hardly any time to read beyond the 3-5 books I'm required to read every week for classes.

My immediate reaction to picking up your book was to look in the index for Otto Günsche. I was absolutely shocked that someone like was not present in the index!!!!!! Has he not been credited as the one who carried out the bodies--meaning he saw them. And being Hitler's personal guard, I'd imagine he'd spot a fake. I also believe he didn't die till 2002 or so, so why is his record not taken into account in your book? Additionally, I have read Traudl Junge's memoir, and she mentions hearing the whole story from Günsche. How could you not address such accounts in your book?? Maybe you have and they are simply not in the index (which means a poor editing job to not include such a big name) because I admittedly have not read far yet.

Regardless though, I very much like your book so far, and find it very intriguing, if nothing else. I'm quite skeptical of him being able to fly over enemy territory to Spain without being spotted though... But I enjoy your work. I hope you are willing to address my concerns here. Thank you again for being so open on the forum.

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by phylo_roadking » 14 Oct 2011 21:57

I wish more authors would care that much about their audience to talk directly with them (as direct as an internet forum can get...lol).
I have a feeling that authors who come on to forums only to discuss their works care about something...um, more "material"...than their audience :D
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

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Schlagermeister
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by Schlagermeister » 14 Oct 2011 22:05

phylo_roadking wrote:
I wish more authors would care that much about their audience to talk directly with them (as direct as an internet forum can get...lol).
I have a feeling that authors who come on to forums only to discuss their works care about something...um, more "material"...than their audience :D
I suppose that's the cynical approach. 'Cause I'm sure not a single person has good intentions, right? :|

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by phylo_roadking » 14 Oct 2011 22:09

'Cause I'm sure not a single person has good intentions, right?
My colleague and I have a new book being published....

:wink:
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

projectgreywolf
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by projectgreywolf » 14 Oct 2011 22:14

phylo_roadking wrote:
I wish more authors would care that much about their audience to talk directly with them (as direct as an internet forum can get...lol).
I have a feeling that authors who come on to forums only to discuss their works care about something...um, more "material"...than their audience :D
"Phylo," I am happy to discuss many aspects of WW2. I have offered to share my research here. I'm not happy about people who hide behind pseudonyms, have opinions on things they haven't read, and spout their vitriol on many forums. I have a view, and it is simply this. Come and have a go if you think you've read enough.
If you have authored something, been somewhere, have direct experience, I'd love you to share it with me and the other serious members here. Oh yes, and your real name is.....

Gerrard Williams

projectgreywolf
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by projectgreywolf » 14 Oct 2011 22:18

Schlagermeister wrote:Hi,

I'm new here in a way (never registered or posted), but I often visit to read what is on these forums. I finally found a big enough reason to post (I usually don't like online arguments and try to avoid them...). I have your new book Gerrard, and I am very glad to see that you peruse forums and actively discuss your work--I wish more authors would care that much about their audience to talk directly with them (as direct as an internet forum can get...lol). So my compliments for your efforts.

Anyway, my reason for posting is because I take issue with the date on the photograph of Hitler meeting with the Hitler Youth and giving them medals. It is dated as 20 March, 1945. Is this a totally different photo than what I am thinking of??? Because I'm quite sure that photo is from his birthday of that year--which would put it at 20 April, 1945. I also believe that to be rather well documented. Or is the photo you use to prove that was a double from a different but similar occasion that occured a month prior??? I found this extremely odd...I would like to here your thoughts on this.

Additionally, I'd like to say how I came across actually purchasing your book, which also leads me to another big question. I saw it in the store, saw the subtitle, and then dismissed it immediately, haha. I'm sure you can guess why. But a couple days later my mom called me up and told me how much she was enjoying it and that it could potentially be more legitimate that I would assume it to be. So, after having heard much about it from my mom, who reads a lot of history as well, I decided it would at least be worth reading for fun. I'll admit, I have not had enough free time (sadly :( ) to get very far into your book just yet. I am a history grad student at the moment at JMU, so have hardly any time to read beyond the 3-5 books I'm required to read every week for classes.

My immediate reaction to picking up your book was to look in the index for Otto Günsche. I was absolutely shocked that someone like was not present in the index!!!!!! Has he not been credited as the one who carried out the bodies--meaning he saw them. And being Hitler's personal guard, I'd imagine he'd spot a fake. I also believe he didn't die till 2002 or so, so why is his record not taken into account in your book? Additionally, I have read Traudl Junge's memoir, and she mentions hearing the whole story from Günsche. How could you not address such accounts in your book?? Maybe you have and they are simply not in the index (which means a poor editing job to not include such a big name) because I admittedly have not read far yet.

Regardless though, I very much like your book so far, and find it very intriguing, if nothing else. I'm quite skeptical of him being able to fly over enemy territory to Spain without being spotted though... But I enjoy your work. I hope you are willing to address my concerns here. Thank you again for being so open on the forum.

It's 20th march, not 20th april 1945. Misquoted all over the place. I'll send you details tomorrow. Nice to meet you

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by phylo_roadking » 14 Oct 2011 22:27

I wish more authors would care that much about their audience to talk directly with them
I'm not happy about people who hide behind pseudonyms, have opinions on things they haven't read, and spout their vitriol on many forums. I have a view, and it is simply this. Come and have a go if you think you've read enough.
Really, really well done for putting the lie to the slack that Schlagermeister cut you :lol:

I really couldn't have done any better myself :roll:
...and spout their vitriol on many forums.
Joining their ranks, I see...
I'd love you to share it with me and the other serious members here.
You've appeared here after a year's absence to do nothing else on the forum except advertise your book, and class yourself as being among the "serious members"??? :lol:
Oh yes, and your real name is.....

Gerrard Williams
Nope, my real name isn't Gerrard Williams :P
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

projectgreywolf
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Joined: 03 Apr 2008 14:48

Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by projectgreywolf » 14 Oct 2011 22:32

No but you don't have the courage to say what it is. I am ignoring you from now on.
Get a life.
G

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by phylo_roadking » 14 Oct 2011 22:34

No but you don't have the courage to say what it is. I am ignoring you from now on.


Feel free to. But I'm sure you'll likewise realise that I have a right to post whatever I feel like that's germane to the thread according to the rules of the forum?
Get a life.
....and spout their vitriol on many forums.
I am ignoring you from now on
...and leaving this unanswered?
You've appeared here after a year's absence to do nothing else on the forum except advertise your book, and class yourself as being among the "serious members"???
Last edited by phylo_roadking on 14 Oct 2011 22:40, edited 1 time in total.
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

projectgreywolf
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Posts: 60
Joined: 03 Apr 2008 14:48

Re: Grey Wolf - The Escape of Adolf Hitler

Post by projectgreywolf » 14 Oct 2011 22:40

phylo_roadking wrote:
No but you don't have the courage to say what it is. I am ignoring you from now on.


Feel free to. But I'm sure you'll likewise realise that I have a right to post whatever I feel like that's germane to the thread according to the rules of the forum?
Get a life.
....and spout their vitriol on many forums.
Of course. How you can type one-handed is quite amazing.

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