Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

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Felix C
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Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#1

Post by Felix C » 21 Sep 2012, 19:41

Osprey Order of Battle Ardennes series any good? Opinons, recommendations? Run away?
Considering both the Axis & Allied titles. three of each for each side-Northern, Central, Southern.

Read where there was a TOO error regarding U.S. infantry battalions in an Amazon review. Author omitted to mentioned the Weapons Company is also a lettered company.

Anyone read, own Duel in the Mist vol 1 and 2 and provide input?>
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/095554 ... N03F2ABAVW

I read the Stackpole Kampfgruppe Peiper book and would like more detail on activities.

Own the Dupuy, Parker and Before/After but looking for a bit more detail on the indiviual columns along with topo maps.

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Simon H
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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#2

Post by Simon H » 24 Sep 2012, 14:30

Felix C wrote:Osprey Order of Battle Ardennes series any good? Opinons, recommendations? Run away?
Considering both the Axis & Allied titles. three of each for each side-Northern, Central, Southern.

Read where there was a TOO error regarding U.S. infantry battalions in an Amazon review. Author omitted to mentioned the Weapons Company is also a lettered company.

Anyone read, own Duel in the Mist vol 1 and 2 and provide input?>
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/095554 ... N03F2ABAVW

I read the Stackpole Kampfgruppe Peiper book and would like more detail on activities.

Own the Dupuy, Parker and Before/After but looking for a bit more detail on the indiviual columns along with topo maps.
Hello Felix,
Osprey titles, very lightweight. Lots of alternatives, firstly, The Battle of the Bulge Then & Now by Jean Paul Pallud, always a good start. Two volumes Battle of the Bulge in Luxembourg (Americans/Germans) by Roland Gaul, very good for the Southern Shoulder of the Bulge. Forum author Hans Wijers has written several books on the Ardennes, reviewed on my own site. Very good!


Other forum members will chip in I'm sure.
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken Identification.


Trackhead M2
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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#3

Post by Trackhead M2 » 25 Sep 2012, 01:12

Dear FC,
Have you tried World War 2 US Army Order of Battle? it has the locations for every battalion on up. As to the Bulge, try John Toland's Battle: Story of the Bulge. Or if you can find it, Dark December by Robert Merriam. Both are great reads and highly accurate.
Strike Swiflty,
TH-M2

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Pips
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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#4

Post by Pips » 25 Sep 2012, 02:12

Highly recommend "The Battle of the Bulge, Britain's Untold Story" by Charles Whiting.

Rarely mentioned in history books, the British contribution the the final victory in the Bulge is all but unknown. The decision was deliberate, based on politics at the time and the need to mend Anglo-American relations. Yet it was Montgomery who commanded more US troops for most of the battle than did 12th Army Group Commander General Bradley. It was Montgomery too who had three (3) divisions on their way to the Front two days before Patton's celebrated turn-around and drive north to Bastogne. And it was the combined British/American force that stopped the German armoured divisions heading to the key target of the bridges over the Meuse.

No one denies that the battle fo the Bulge was a great victory for American troops. Yet to better understand just how the battle progressed, the forces at play throughout the area, and to pay honor to the 2,500 British troops who died in the battle; the above book is required reading IMHO.

canambridge
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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#5

Post by canambridge » 25 Sep 2012, 16:23

Pips,

Can you supply more detail on the combined American/British force that stopped the German armored divisions? And the three (I infer British, certainly you're not including the 82nd & 101st that Eisenhower sent) divisions that were on their way to the front.

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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#6

Post by Trackhead M2 » 25 Sep 2012, 21:05

canambridge wrote:Pips,

Can you supply more detail on the combined American/British force that stopped the German armored divisions? And the three (I infer British, certainly you're not including the 82nd & 101st that Eisenhower sent) divisions that were on their way to the front.
Dear c,
The US 30th INF DIV was part of the 9th US Army which was technically under Montgomery for a good period of time during the Bulge. See Workhorse of the Western Front. Most of the troops placed under Montgomery's command during the Bulge were American.It is a similar situation to the crazy US headlines after Dieppe mentioning the tiny force of US Rangers who went in with an operation which was primarily Canadian. I don't want the British vets to be slighted as the were there and chewed the same dirt. A 30th DIV vet I met told me of how Montgomery sent the division Chrismas presents: each man got pair of British socks. It figures he gave the gift of woolens.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

canambridge
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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#7

Post by canambridge » 26 Sep 2012, 01:48

But wasn't the 30th (and the 82nd and 101st) already on the way to the Ardennes before Montgomery was given control of the 1st and 9th US Armies?

And I thought that the main battle that stopped the German armored drive to the Meuse was the US 2nd Armored division at Celles that largely destroyed the 2nd Panzer division. I don't think Br XXX Corps was part of that battle and the counter attack was launched against FM Montgomery's wishes.

Aber
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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#8

Post by Aber » 26 Sep 2012, 09:00

Trackhead M2 wrote: A 30th DIV vet I met told me of how Montgomery sent the division Chrismas presents: each man got pair of British socks. It figures he gave the gift of woolens.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2
Not surprising if you compare the US and UK rates of trench foot.

canambridge
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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#9

Post by canambridge » 26 Sep 2012, 13:45

I believe US boots left something to be desired as well.

Aber
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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#10

Post by Aber » 26 Sep 2012, 14:14

I don't think anybody is ever happy with their boots!

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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#11

Post by Trackhead M2 » 26 Sep 2012, 14:39

canambridge wrote:I believe US boots left something to be desired as well.
Dear c,
The problem was that JCH Lee; US Theater Deputy Commander for Supply, wasn't concerned with shipping galoshes or the Shoe Pac boots which were needed at the front as opposed to pre-fab housing for his supply personnel and other comforts. I have a pair of March 1944 Shoe Pacs which were never issued. They should have been in the Ardennes. The high tops and leggings or Double Buckle boot weren't intended to be worn in winter alone.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#12

Post by Trackhead M2 » 26 Sep 2012, 23:23

Aber wrote:
Trackhead M2 wrote: A 30th DIV vet I met told me of how Montgomery sent the division Chrismas presents: each man got pair of British socks. It figures he gave the gift of woolens.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2
Not surprising if you compare the US and UK rates of trench foot.
Dear Big A,
It was a weak attempt at humor. Wasn't the British Exchequer once called the "wool sack"? So it figured the gift would be woolen. Kind of like being offered beef steak in Texas or Argentina.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

Delta Tank
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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#13

Post by Delta Tank » 29 Sep 2012, 15:20

Aber wrote:I don't think anybody is ever happy with their boots!
Agree!!

Mike

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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#14

Post by Delta Tank » 29 Sep 2012, 15:24

Felix C wrote:Osprey Order of Battle Ardennes series any good? Opinons, recommendations? Run away?
Considering both the Axis & Allied titles. three of each for each side-Northern, Central, Southern.

Read where there was a TOO error regarding U.S. infantry battalions in an Amazon review. Author omitted to mentioned the Weapons Company is also a lettered company.

Anyone read, own Duel in the Mist vol 1 and 2 and provide input?>
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/095554 ... N03F2ABAVW

I read the Stackpole Kampfgruppe Peiper book and would like more detail on activities.

Own the Dupuy, Parker and Before/After but looking for a bit more detail on the indiviual columns along with topo maps.
Have you tried the Green Series book? The Ardennes: Battle Of The Bulge? http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA ... index.html The maps are excellent and the book is also very good.

Mike

Delta Tank
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Re: Questions regarding some book titles on Ardennes 1944

#15

Post by Delta Tank » 29 Sep 2012, 15:26

Pips wrote:Highly recommend "The Battle of the Bulge, Britain's Untold Story" by Charles Whiting.

Rarely mentioned in history books, the British contribution the the final victory in the Bulge is all but unknown. The decision was deliberate, based on politics at the time and the need to mend Anglo-American relations. Yet it was Montgomery who commanded more US troops for most of the battle than did 12th Army Group Commander General Bradley. It was Montgomery too who had three (3) divisions on their way to the Front two days before Patton's celebrated turn-around and drive north to Bastogne. And it was the combined British/American force that stopped the German armoured divisions heading to the key target of the bridges over the Meuse.

No one denies that the battle fo the Bulge was a great victory for American troops. Yet to better understand just how the battle progressed, the forces at play throughout the area, and to pay honor to the 2,500 British troops who died in the battle; the above book is required reading IMHO.
Can you back up this assertion with a book that does not quote this book as its source? I think this is bullshit, or close to bullshit.

Mike

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