"Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Discussions on books and other reference material on the WW1, Inter-War or WW2 as well as the authors. Hosted by Andy H.
Forum rules
You can support AHF when buying books etc from Amazon, Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.de by using these links.
It costs you nothing extra but it helps keep the forum up and running.
User avatar
Michael Miller
Forum Staff
Posts: 8065
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 22:05
Location: California

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Michael Miller » 27 Mar 2017 18:25

Sid~

It does not include such analysis, however it sounds like that is well within your intellectual purview. Please cite me as your data source, and I eagerly anticipate your results.

~ Mike

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2357
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Mark Costa » 27 Mar 2017 22:12

Looking forward to reading it Mike !!! Hope it does well with sales.

Mark

Sid Guttridge
Member
Posts: 6674
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 11:19

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Sid Guttridge » 28 Mar 2017 16:49

Hi Michael,

If I had such a data source, I wouldn't be displaying an interest in the contents of your book.

One of the major weaknesses in almost all such books with lists of names and potted biographies is that they contain no analysis of their own contents. This reduces the creator of the book from being an historian-author to being a clerical-archivist. The latter is no bad thing of itself and often provides useful material, but I always feel that by stopping there the creator is doing only half his job.

This is a shame, because nobody would appear to be better qualified to analyse this information in such books than the person who assembled the source material in the first place.

Good luck, anyway,

Sid

User avatar
Michael Miller
Forum Staff
Posts: 8065
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 22:05
Location: California

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Michael Miller » 28 Mar 2017 17:20

You've made your thoughts on this matter clear for quite a few years, Sid.

~ Mike

Sid Guttridge
Member
Posts: 6674
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 11:19

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Sid Guttridge » 28 Mar 2017 17:49

Hi Mike,

Indeed I have, which makes me wonder that the compilers of many of these books still haven't sought to improve them by analysing their own contents. They are clearly the most qualified people to do so, as they have wider source material to hand than their readers. As it is, some of them more closely resemble class yearbooks than works of historical inquiry.

I want these books to be better and more useful to the rest of us. I assume the authors do, too. This is one suggested way of making them so.

Anyway, good luck. Your book is far better published than not if it provides new, sourced material.

Cheers,

Sid.
Last edited by Sid Guttridge on 28 Mar 2017 17:54, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Michael Miller
Forum Staff
Posts: 8065
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 22:05
Location: California

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Michael Miller » 28 Mar 2017 17:53

I suppose we could go around and around with this debate for several more pages, as we did in the past, but let's not.

Your commentary and criticism are duly noted. You do not like books such as mine. That is clear. And it is also clear that you are not the target audience.

I have to confess that I'm not the best at defending my work. Maybe there is no defense. Maybe there is no need for one. In any case, this is tedious and exhausting, so I'm done

Regards,
~ Mike

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2357
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Mark Costa » 28 Mar 2017 18:52

Sid:

I use Mike's books for further research into a particular person or event etc. If you want such statistical analysis such as fates, education, etc I suggest you do your own research, as many of us already have. It is a fairly easy thing to do. Go through the books and pull out all the information you require and go from there. How many books have you written? It takes a lot of time and money to put a book like Mike's together. If you are so much interested in such information start researching for yourself instead of criticizing others works.

Mark Costa

J. Duncan
Member
Posts: 2717
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 10:22

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by J. Duncan » 28 Mar 2017 20:24

...to add to the above, I have collected Mike's books as supplementary and photographic material to what is written in other books. Names are mentioned but you don't know what they looked like. For instance, Robert Wistrich came out with a good book years ago titled "Whos Who in Nazi Germany". The book has much personal characterization with analysis of certain NSDAP individuals but no photos (!) no chronological details, awards, or promotions. Mike does inject many little known details at the end of his entries -which I find fascinating - but I guess I really enjoy the books for the photographs.

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2357
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Mark Costa » 28 Mar 2017 22:07

J Duncan:

Exactly !! Those little details is what helps us identify individuals, dates, awards, timelines etc. These details are essential to see the "larger picture". And yes, I like photos too !!!

Mark

J. Duncan
Member
Posts: 2717
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 10:22

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by J. Duncan » 29 Mar 2017 00:02

The "larger picture" is probably better expanded upon by the collegiate scholar who uses Mike's book for his research.
I think Mike admitted that he is no "psycho-analyst" nor is he a writer of the historical narrative which flows all of this info together into an 800 page "magnum opus" which wins awards and titles ala Sir Ian Kershaw. Kershaw uses Mike's book for his research, writes a historical "masterpiece' and all Mike gets out of the deal is the thrill of seeing his name in a single line in the bibliography of Sir Ian's book. Mike's book has the raw data in it and the "Sir Ians" expand it into pages of psycho-historical narrative. I guess that's how I see it but the little guys don't get the notice they deserve.

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2357
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Mark Costa » 29 Mar 2017 00:55

J Duncan:

Well put !! The big guys stand on the shoulder of those "little guys" like Mike that do all the hard grungy work -- the type of work that I truly appreciate. Mike's books are jammed packed with the details that I just love -- the photos are a bonus.

Mark

Sid Guttridge
Member
Posts: 6674
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 11:19

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Sid Guttridge » 30 Mar 2017 14:22

As Mike has pointed out, I have suggested such an improvement before. I find it strange how, when one suggests an improvement, everyone gets defensive as if it is a criticism. I want such books to be better, not worse. I want them fuller, not leaner. More informative, not less so. I am rather surprised that the respondents here are apparently resistant to this.

Hi Mike Costa, The same argument you advance goes for you buying the books. Why, if you are that interested in the subject, don't you also do the original research instead? I know Mike must spend much effort in preparing his books. All I want is for them to be still more useful and I have suggested one way this could be so.

Hi J. Duncan, While what a person looked like may be of interest, does it really matter much? I am more interested in the hard facts in the books with more historical significance. I would suggest it doesn't much matter whether a personality was blonde or brunette, tall or short, but, for example, I would suggest that their professional/class/educational background is important, especially collectively. This is because the NSDAP claimed to advance the ordinary German up the hierarchy, but it is possible that its actual hierarchy doesn't reflect this. Maybe Gauleiters were professional, middle class, people with degrees rather than miners, peasants or factory workers, which would belie the NSDAP's claimed aims? Mike, who presumably has more such information than pretty much anyone else, could include this in tabular form and confirm or repudiate this, which would be a significant historical contribution.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you write about some popular authors, particularly Anthony Beevor, standing on the drier researches of others. The likes of Mike provide the solid skeleton upon which popular authors add the flesh. Without the skeleton, there would be no structure to their work and they would be writing in a vacuum. I have written about this elsewhere on AHF myself. If Mike could include more analysis (not psychoanalysis) of his own material, he might make a bigger impact and deservedly share more of the credit.

Cheers,

Sid.

User avatar
Michael Miller
Forum Staff
Posts: 8065
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 22:05
Location: California

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Michael Miller » 30 Mar 2017 14:51

Sid~

Such analysis has already been conducted and published by other historians, notably Michael Kater, Dietrich Orlow, and Peter Huttenberger. My work fills other gaps in the historical record of the Third Reich.

Sir Ian Kershaw penned the foreword to my and Andreas Schulz's SA series, while Mark Costa and Richard Hargreaves have done the same for "Gauleiter"; that is sufficient share of "the credit". I research and write what I enjoy, and that is also sufficient for me.

Best wishes,
~ Mike

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2357
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Mark Costa » 30 Mar 2017 15:56

Sid:

first of all my name is MARK not Mike. Mike's books make it very easy to find info,instead of going through thousands of my files and photos. If you want more analysis, all the info you require is in the books -- pull it out and examine it yourself. Mike covers all the "interests" you list above. I am sorry Mike does not include charts, diagrams and ledgers for you. Be reasonable, putting all this information together is very time consuming. A little effort on your part in examining the information is required. All of us did the same back in the old days before the internet, when we actually had to visit archives and spend thousands of dollars obtaining this information. Mike and many others who put these books together have done tremendous service to this research community. I just get angered when someone does not take the time do a little research of their own. And in regards to your comment of doing my own research -- I suggest you look up my name on this forum and see how much I have done over the last 50 years.

Mark Costa

User avatar
Michael Miller
Forum Staff
Posts: 8065
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 22:05
Location: California

Re: "Gauleiter, Volume 2" - Nearing release from R. J. Bender

Post by Michael Miller » 30 Mar 2017 16:09

Also, Sid, my work is not a collective examination. As pointed out earlier, that has already been done. What has not is in-depth examination of the Gauleiter as individuals.

I'm curious- have you ever thumbed through a book bearing my name? Those who have seem generally satisfied with my approach, a fact for which I am gratified and humbled.

~ Mike

Return to “Books & other Reference Material”