Führerliste by John Moore

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Michael Miller
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Re: Führerliste by John Moore

Post by Michael Miller » 11 Aug 2019 15:12

Ivan~

To be fair, Mori is talking about the raw, copyright-free data in the form of original Personalakten- files in their entirety as opposed to what is presented in the "Führerliste" series. I do see the context in which he offers it, but this is a legitimate debate and Mr. Moore's own conduct doesn't provoke much sympathy. Attacking someone for "hiding under a screen name" is a straw man argument, and calling that person a "POS" further invalidates whatever point he's trying to make.

Best,
~ Mike

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Führerliste by John Moore

Post by Ivan Ž. » 11 Aug 2019 15:14

No, dear Mike, this time it was specifically the "Führerliste" by John Moore.
Mori wrote:
09 Aug 2019 20:50
duguesclin62 wrote:
09 Aug 2019 08:59
I am looking to buy all the cds of the führerliste der Waffen-SS of Mr John P Moore
Email me, I can certainly help. I don't charge anything for what I send.
Ivan

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Michael Miller
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Re: Führerliste by John Moore

Post by Michael Miller » 11 Aug 2019 15:20

I can see how it might read that way, but that's not what he meant. I know from his posts in the "Research and Archives" forum that Mori is talking about the A3343-SSO files. The "Führerliste" disks are a distillation of A3343-SSO. I see Mori as simply offering a more complete product.
To quote John P. Moore: "When someone boasts about their new masterpiece all over the Internet, they should be prepared for some criticism if their work comes up short in the view of some."

~ Mike

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Führerliste by John Moore

Post by Ivan Ž. » 11 Aug 2019 15:27

There's a difference betwen provocations and criticism. Mori is free to offer help (it is very kind of him - I respect that!), and criticise too of course, but why does someone's work need to be demeaned along the way? Why offering help in a topic dealing with someone else's work? If anything, it's off-topic and again against the forum rules. Moore's Führerliste has mistakes, like any other work, but why provoke the man? He is correcting them after all. They weren't deliberate mistakes, he wasn't trying to cheat anybody. I think an old member like John deserves more than this from this forum.

Best wishes to all,
Ivan

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Michael Miller
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Re: Führerliste by John Moore

Post by Michael Miller » 11 Aug 2019 15:33

Respectfully, I think there's a lot of history here that you're not considering or have not seen.

~ Mike

Mori
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Re: Führerliste by John Moore

Post by Mori » 11 Aug 2019 15:39

@Ivan Z: I believe I am the one who knows how I could have helped, and your interpretation is just an that, an interpretation.

You raise the "copyright" issue on JM list. Although not an expert on US law, I believe "copyright" requires a "registration" - correct me if I'm wrong. Has JM ever registered his "list"? Since he claims the list changes every week, it makes such a "registration" a nice complexity.

Besides, I don't believe the archives reproduced on the CDs can be subject to any "copyright", especially since JM did not do the copies himself but bought them from the national archives. He can't claim "copyright" on pictures he did not take.

These archives make the bulk of the "list", something like 99,9% of the size (in Gb or in number of pages). Then there are a few word files, e.g., a 2 pages introduction made by a veteran (but then copyright lies with this veteran, not JM!).

There are also word files listing names, ranks, and date of birth of officers. I am not sure they can be subject to copyright as they are little more than phonebooks where dates of birth replaced phone numbers. Similar catalogs from the national archives (ex: PERS 6 on BAMA's Invenio) are not subject to copyright.

But even if these last word files were subject to copyright, it is fair to assume redistributing everything else - ie 99,9% of the total - wouldn't break any copyright.

Finally, I should add that *many* people happen to have a copy of JM's list on their hard drives. Only John knows how many people he charged for the CDs, but trust me: his list has been widely redistributed and it is *very* easy to find someone willing to share it.

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Führerliste by John Moore

Post by Ivan Ž. » 11 Aug 2019 15:46

Dear Mike,

All I see is that the topic is called "Führerliste by John Moore". I don't know John or Mori personally. If Mori wishes to offer help he may do so in a topic entitled, for example, "Führerliste by Mori". If he wishes to criticise Moore's work, he should feel free to do so here, but without unnecessary provocations. It's not complicated.

Cheers,
Ivan

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Re: Führerliste by John Moore

Post by David Thompson » 11 Aug 2019 15:56

This discussion is going nowhere pleasant or productive, so the topic is locked.

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