Generalstab Officers

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Mori
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Generalstab Officers

Post by Mori » 12 Mar 2019 10:11

Hello all,

I'm looking for a list of the Generalstab officers at the beginning of the war. Such a list for any date in the 1930's would also help. Pointing the relevant archives would also be appreciated, as I can always manage to get them.

By Generalstab officers I mean those formely considered "im Generalstab". They usually added "i.G." when signing their name.

Thanks,

Mori

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hucks216
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Re: Generalstab Officers

Post by hucks216 » 13 Mar 2019 10:10

NARA T-78 Roll 519 contains the following for 1.8.1938 that lists those from Austria:
Dienstaltersliste der Generalstabs und Truppenoffiziere des ehemaligen österreichischaen Bundesheeres

You also have the 2 volume Die Dienstlaufbahnen der Offiziere des Generalstabes des deutschen Heeres 1935-1945 by Christian Zweng which covers those that made it to Major and above.

carmilhan
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Re: Generalstab Officers

Post by carmilhan » 27 Mar 2019 14:43

Hello,

In the book by Hansgeorg Model (son of Generalfeldmarschall Model)

"Der Deutsche Generalstabsoffizier; Bernard & Graefe Verlag, Frankfurt/M 1968,

you will find a complete list of all Generalstabsoffiziere and "Anwärter" as of August 26, 1939.

Appendix C1 comprises 10 pages of GenStOffz.
Appendix C2 comprises 3 pages of "officers commanded to the Generalstab.
Appendix C 3 contains 7 pages of students at the Academy of War.

Carmilhan

carmilhan
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Re: Generalstab Officers

Post by carmilhan » 27 Mar 2019 15:15

Hello,

In the book by Hansgeorg Model (son of Generalfeldmarschall Model)

"Der Deutsche Generalstabsoffizier; Bernard & Graefe Verlag, Frankfurt/M 1968,

you will find a complete list of all Generalstabsoffiziere and "Anwärter" as of August 26, 1939.

Appendix C1 comprises 10 pages of GenStOffz.
Appendix C2 comprises 3 pages of "officers commanded to the Generalstab.
Appendix C 3 contains 7 pages of students at the Academy of War.

Carmilhan

histan
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Re: Generalstab Officers

Post by histan » 30 Mar 2019 19:27

Hi Mori

Just discovered this thread.

The primary source for this list is NARA T-78 R-817.

I have a copy should you want one (and do not have it already).

Regards

John

Mori
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Location: Europe

Re: Generalstab Officers

Post by Mori » 30 Mar 2019 21:18

Thanks to both of you.

It still adds to the mystery of what being "im Generalstab" actually meant.

The list from T78 R817 is good material. I believe the same is reproduced in Hansgeorg Model's book. (If someone can post a copy of the first pages of the relevant appendix from this book, I will be grateful).

2 questions, if you are in the know:

1) What does the number between parenthesis mean?
For example, there is a "(5)" in the first two lines are :
Gen.d.Art. 1.2.36 (5) Halder
Gen.d.Inf 1.4.39 (5) von Stülpnagel
2) This list has a small number of generals. There are many big names, like Halder, Manstein, Model, Paulus or Jodl. But many more are missing. For example, Rundstedt, Guderian, von Bock, von Leeb are not in the list, to name prominent figures of the early war. It is all the more puzzling that I am certain that Guderian was "i.G." (he got im Generalstab in 1918).

It looks like this list includes "all officers currently working at the General staff", which might be different from "all officers with the 'im Generalstab' title".
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histan
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Re: Generalstab Officers

Post by histan » 30 Mar 2019 22:38

Hi Mori

Numbers in brackets show the seniority within that promotion date and hence the position of the officer in the DAL

The careers of officers who were "iG" were managed by GZ and not by the HPA (until 1942 when they were managed by P3 of the HPA).

Officers usually, transferred out of the Generalstab when appointed to a troop command - for example von Manstein transferred out of the Generalstab when appointed to XXXVIII AK and the management of their careers were taken over again by the HPA. They were no longer entitled to have the letters i.G. after their name because they were no longer members of the "Generalstab".

R-817 contains a list of officers who were transferred out of the Generalstab and the date of transfer during 1939 to 1942.

A "Handliste" of active (aktiv) officers who were members of the Generastab was published and up dated at regular intervals. The NARA records contain copies of three such lists.

The information contained in R-817 contains details only for officers who were classified as active.

Some retired officers were mobilized (with the designation z.V.). These officers were not "aktiv" and are not listed in the DAL or in the GZ documentation

Some of these z.V. officers were also incorporated into the Generastab and were entitled to have the letters i.G. after there name. Various Stellenbestzung show these officers. As far as I am aware, there is no list of these officers. I am not sure if any such officers were in the Generalstab on 26.08.1939.

A complex subject!

Regards

John

Mori
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Re: Generalstab Officers

Post by Mori » 30 Mar 2019 23:04

Hello John,

Thanks a lot, really. It's definitively complex.

One thing I realized is generals would not sign "i.G." any more. Pretty much like it wouldn't make sense at this point: if one made it to "general", one was 'obviously' good enough to be part of the Generalstab.
(I suppose this showed on the uniforms: an "i.G." Oberst/colonel had a red-striped trousers. Once promoted to general, he did not anymore, did he?).

Could you enlighten me with GZ and HPA organization? I don't even know what these letters mean...

carmilhan
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Re: Generalstab Officers

Post by carmilhan » 31 Mar 2019 22:08

Hallo
@ red-striped trousers.
All officers " in the Generalstab" ( i.G.) ( i.e. Captains to Colonel) wore on their trousers
double pipings (so called " Lampassen) in crimson red (carmine red = karmesinrot)
Generals of all ranks wore double pipings in bright red.

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