How many diaries did von Bock have?

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abvoronin
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Posts: 11
Joined: 21 Jun 2017 18:30
Location: Moscow, Russia

How many diaries did von Bock have?

Post by abvoronin » 13 Mar 2019 22:44

Hi!

I read the Russian edition of the book Disaster at Moscow: Von Bock's Campaigns, 1941-1942 and discovered that the used quotations from the Von Bock Diary did not coincide with those published in the russian edition of Generalfeldmarschall Fedor von Bock: The War Diary 1939-1945. Although for the Russian translation used German edition: Bock F. Zwischen Pflicht und Verweigerung: das Kriegstagebuch — Munchen; Berlin: Herbig, 1995.

The author of the book Disaster at Moscow (it was published in 1971) refers to the von Bock Diary from NARA Generalfeldmarschall Fedor von Bock Kriegstagebuch mai 1939 - mai 1945 T-84.

In book Fugate B. Operation Barbarossa. — Novato: Presidio Press, 1984. I found the full reference:
Bock, Fedor von, "Tagebuchnotizen Osten—Vorbereitungszeit," May-June 1941 22/7 ——"Tagebuchnotizen Osten I," June-December 1941, 21-g-16/4P-5 National Archives Microfilm Publication T-84, roll 271 Marcks, Ench "Operationsentwurf Ost," August 1940, 21-g-16/4q National Archives Microfilm Publication T-84, roll 271, frames 902-923

So Alfred W. Turney and B.Fugate used a diary from the NARA archive because it was not previously published. But which von Bock's diary was published in 1995: from NARA or was it some other diary published?

As I discovered, the quotes are completely different. This could be a translation problem: from German to English and from English to Russian versus a direct German Russian translation. But in the quotations from NARA, events that were not reflected at all in the diary published in 1995 were mentioned.
Bad and incomplete translation into Russian? May be.
But it is possible that these are two different diaries, since Generalfeldmarschall Fedor von Bock: The War Diary 1939-1945 contains a lot of personal assessments that are not suitable for the military archive.

Thank you for reading to the end, maybe someone can help me with questions:

What is the source of the published diary of von Bock?

Do the von Bock diary quotations in Disaster at Moscow coincide with the English edition of Generalfeldmarschall Fedor von Bock: The War Diary 1939-1945 (I checked the end of September and the beginning of October 1941)

And the last but not the least important question is whether anyone has T-84 R-271 microfilm.
Interests: 1941. Defence lines & fortification near Rzhev, Wyazma, Selizharovo, Ostashkov, Sychevka, Olenino, Molodoy Tud, Urdom. Upper Volga & Dnieper. Dorobuzh, Yelnya, Bryansk. Moscow, Volokolamsk, Mozhaysk. Maps. Photos.

Mori
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Joined: 25 Oct 2014 11:04
Location: Europe

Re: How many diaries did von Bock have?

Post by Mori » 13 Mar 2019 23:08

Part of the answer lays in your question: translations of translations can be a severe problem. You're better off refering to the German copy.

Have you got the published copy of von Bock diary? The editor explains that:
- there is an "original copy" at NARA (=> must be T84 R271, NARA catalog says it was made available by his daughter, Ursula von Kreisler)
- there is a "reworked copy" at BAMA
- but what they print is a copy made available by Bock's stepson, Kurt-Adalbert und Dinnies von der Osten. Bock gave this copy to general von Salmuth, whose son passed it to Kurt-Adalbert. This copy is "before rework".

abvoronin
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 21 Jun 2017 18:30
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: How many diaries did von Bock have?

Post by abvoronin » 15 Mar 2019 10:17

Mori !! Thank you very much for the perfect answer!
Interests: 1941. Defence lines & fortification near Rzhev, Wyazma, Selizharovo, Ostashkov, Sychevka, Olenino, Molodoy Tud, Urdom. Upper Volga & Dnieper. Dorobuzh, Yelnya, Bryansk. Moscow, Volokolamsk, Mozhaysk. Maps. Photos.

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