Adolf Hitler by John Toland

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Indra Ross
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Adolf Hitler by John Toland

#1

Post by Indra Ross » 20 Mar 2002, 04:52

I have just finished reading the first volume and I am puzzled by some of the facts mentioned. I also need some information.

1) Two well known Jewish bankers requested Minister of Labor, Friedrich Syrup to stop further immigration of Eastern Jews, since their presence increased anti-Semitism. Is this true?

2) Who comprised the 'Jewish National Union' that supported Hilter's new government?.

3) Can you tell me when the church banished Jews into ghettos and forbid Christians to work with them?.

4) Hitler's office manager mentioned is Albert Bormann.
Does he mean Martin Bormann, or did Albert exist.

5) Who were 'Junkers?.

6) Does anyone know where you can get a copy of 'Triumph of the Will' by Leni Riefenstahl or 'Facts vs Ink' by Ernst Hanfstaengl.

Thanks

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Indra Ross
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Spelling correction Adolf Hitler by John Toland

#2

Post by Indra Ross » 20 Mar 2002, 04:53

Sorry guys, I have to learn to spell without spellcheck.


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Helly Angel
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well...

#3

Post by Helly Angel » 20 Mar 2002, 05:15

Hi Indra,

1) I remember this info but I have not confirmation.

2) ?

3) The catolic church closed their eyes and earings with the racial politics of the nazi regime. My wife is reading "The Pape of Hitler" I´ll make a review abouth this theme with she and I´ll be posts here.

4) Alberty was brother of Martin. Albert was a good man, he has broken relations with Martin who was a bad person. Albert dislike the gossips an intrigues. They never spoken since 1942 (I´m not sure the date) the people of Hitler circle hated Martin and received with high regard Albert. He like help the others.

5)?

6) I bought both items (Video and book) in http://www.amazon.com

See you

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Helly Angel
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#4

Post by Helly Angel » 20 Mar 2002, 05:19

Indra,

Toland is a great historic researcher!

The bio is really good. He has other excelent book called "The last 100 days" abouth the last days of Hitler.

I recommend you this book too.

But about bio, I recommend too, the bio of Ian Kershaw.

great and have more info hidden until today.

I´ll begibn to read this.

Chao pana.

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5) Who were Junkers?

#5

Post by Heraklit » 20 Mar 2002, 06:01

1. Historically Junker most commonly referred to a member of a class of aristocratic landowners, in what was Ostpreußen or East Prussia (after World War II the northern part of which became the Soviet Kaliningrad Oblast and a southern portion became a part of Poland). Etymologically derived from Althochdeutsch juncherro: jung and herr.

2. A Junker during the National Socialist regime was a student either at a Ordensburg (Vogelsang in der Eifel, Sonthofen im Allgäu or Crössinsee in Pommern) or a Junkerschule (Bad Tölz, Braunschweig, Klagenfurt or Prague).

3. Also, but essentially unrelated, Junkers were aircraft manufactured in a firm founded by a Professor Hugo Junkers.

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Junkers

#6

Post by Zapfenstreich » 20 Mar 2002, 06:29

The Junkers were the upper classes made up of the nobility and the landed gentry.

Z

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Helly Angel
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#7

Post by Helly Angel » 20 Mar 2002, 06:41

Curious!

In my country we called the equivalent of Junkers like: "Yuppis"

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Scott Smith
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AS BEN STEIN SAYS...

#8

Post by Scott Smith » 20 Mar 2002, 08:25

...I shall do my best.

1) Two well known Jewish bankers requested Minister of Labor, Friedrich Syrup to stop further immigration of Eastern Jews, since their presence increased anti-Semitism. Is this true?

I don't know. I can't find my copy of Toland but this would not be surprising in the least. For example, many wealthy hispanics in the USA want to crack down on illegal immigration because they don't want to be identified with poor hispanic refugees, also known uncomplimentarily as "wetbacks." Certainly there was a similar socioeconomic class division between "oriental" Jews from Poland and Russia, and their more occidental counterparts in Germany and Western Europe. The Nazi propaganda film Ewige Jude capitalized on these differences.

2) Who comprised the 'Jewish National Union' that supported Hilter's new government?

I'm guessing but I would say Zionists. They wanted Jews out of Europe and into Palestine and had therefore made various devil's bargains with anti-Semitic governments. As the saying goes, a Zionist is a Jew who wants some other Jew to move to Israel.

3) Can you tell me when the church banished Jews into ghettos and forbid Christians to work with them?

Both the Bible and the Koran preach against USURY. During the Middle Ages, the Church forbade Christians to practice usury or moneylending for interest. Jews were absolved from the ban on usury by the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215. This meant that Jews, who tended to practice insularity anyway, were confined to similar ignoble professions in ghettoes. If you wanted a loan you had to go to "Shylock" to get it. And sometimes Christians "declared bankrupcy" by staging a pogrom (an anti-Semitic riot or massacre). Various royal courts had a love-hate relationship with the Jews and they were expelled from England in 1290 as "clippers of coin" or "debasers" of currency. Strictures on usury were relaxed during the High Middle Ages with the explosion of trade and commerce following the Black Death in 1348. By the 16th century, usury laws were generally ignored. Usury today is defined as exorbitant interest or loansharking.

If you want a specific date or information on a specific anti-Jewish measure I can probably do some research. Some other notable events are the Spanish Inquisition (1492) where Spanish Christendom under Ferdinand and Isabella (the sponsors of Columbus) drove out the Moors (Muslims) and the Jews from Spain. Some Jews pretended to convert to Christianity but remained crypto-Jews. Also, Catherine the Great concentrated Russian Jews into Polish ghettoes in the 18th century. Poland was a Russian satrapy at the time, and the Poles were consequently, prior to 1939 at least, the most anti-Semitic people in Europe. In the 19th century, the Tsars were considered the way Hitler is now.

Looks like most of the other questions were already answered.
:) :)

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Last edited by Scott Smith on 23 Mar 2002, 05:59, edited 3 times in total.

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#9

Post by Polizei27 » 20 Mar 2002, 08:45

"Triumph Of The Will" is a documentry of the 1934 Nurenburg Rallies that was produced and directed by Leni Refinstahl (she is still alive). A copy of this flim (along with most of her others) can be obtained from amazon.com, Barnes and Nobles.com, etc. "Triumph Of The Will" is considered to be one of the finist documentries ever produced. Rifinsthal's flims of the 1936 Olympics in Berlin also won many awards.

(It has been claimed that Rifinstahl slept with Hitler; she swears she never did. Even if she did, so what?)

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#10

Post by Ken » 20 Mar 2002, 08:51

The Junkers are a social-class in Germany and have been in Germany for hundreds of years. The Junker class is the class of Prussian aristocratic land-owners. They had large amounts of land and estates. They had peasants working for them and made huge profits. They are concentrated in the Prussian parts of Germany (North-Eastern, I believe) and with their incredible wealth, have a lot of political power and influence. Despite changes in Governments and policies, the Junkers still maintained their power and influence.

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#11

Post by J von B » 20 Mar 2002, 11:04


James
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#12

Post by James » 21 Mar 2002, 02:07

Scott

You wrote in response to Indra'a question "Catherine the Great concentrated Russian Jews into Polish ghettoes in the 18th century. Poland was a Russian satrapy at the time, and the Poles were [i][b]consequently[/b][/i], prior to 1939 at least, the most anti-Semitic people in Europe. In the 19th century, the Tsars were considered the way Hitler is now."

Putting aside the classification of the Poles as the most anti-Semitic peope in Europe prior to 1939 (I remember a lengthy thread on the subject a few months ago), I am interested in your use of the word "consequently". What is the cause and effect you are alluding to?

Also, just who are you saying considered the Tsars the same way Hitler is perceived today? I lost the sense of the point you were making. Are you relating this observation into the previous discussion about the Polish ghettos or is it just an aside.



Thanks in advance.

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In the Ghetto...

#13

Post by Scott Smith » 21 Mar 2002, 04:27

James wrote:Scott
You wrote in response to Indra's question "Catherine the Great concentrated Russian Jews into Polish ghettoes in the 18th century. Poland was a Russian satrapy at the time, and the Poles were consequently, prior to 1939 at least, the most anti-Semitic people in Europe. In the 19th century, the Tsars were considered the way Hitler is now."

Putting aside the classification of the Poles as the most anti-Semitic people in Europe prior to 1939 (I remember a lengthy thread on the subject a few months ago), I am interested in your use of the word "consequently". What is the cause and effect you are alluding to?
Hi James,

Well, the “Enlightened Despot” Catherine concentrated the Jews into ghettoes in the fringes of the Russian Empire, i.e., at Poland’s expense. In other words, they were not sent there out of humanitarian motives but to send them as far as possible from Mother Russia onto a “reservation” somewhere. One can imagine the conflict, open and seething that this might cause between Poles and Jews.

Poland is a nation not known for its middle class. It was a nation on the basis of the Polish language and the Roman Catholic Church, which had a fiercely nationalistic landed nobility and a lot of serfs. The Jews of the ghettoes essentially were shoehorned into the role as the bourgeoisie or “Third Estate,” with attendant resentments on both sides.
Also, just who are you saying considered the Tsars the same way Hitler is perceived today? I lost the sense of the point you were making. Are you relating this observation into the previous discussion about the Polish ghettos or is it just an aside.
Well, the “Shtetl” historiography of anti-Semitism, which I am admittedly not an expert in, would easily see the Tsars as the villains prior to WWII. These waves of Jewish refugees weren’t trying to escape from a Righteous Gentile by any means, although I think Nicholas II was less anti-Semitic than most of the Tsars, IIRC. After 1917-1919 that “honor” goes to the new Polish State created at Versailles, until anti-Semitism emerges into state-policy with Nazi rhetoric and ideology.

Now the whole Shoah enchilada is called the Holocaust, as if it emerged out of nowhere in Hitler’s mind and the insular ghetto communities are great places of culture that no Jews ever wanted to leave.

One can see evidence of this prewar anti-Semitism simply in the massive Jewish immigration to the USA from Russia in the late 19th century. This is what prompted Theodor Hertzl to found the Zionist movement in the first place so that Jews would have a nation of their own, i.e., in the Holy Land. Therefore, anti-Semitism is used to justify the desire for Israel, not merely a nation of their own. Winston Churchill wrote in 1920 that Zionism and Bolshevism were even two ideologies “struggling for the soul of the Jewish people.”

Consequent to this wave of immigrant Jewish refugees in the latter 19th and early 20th centuries, there was extreme resistance among Americans in the 1930s to absorption of additional Jews from German persecutions, an unfortunate policy that could have made a difference in the fate of Europe’s Jews during the war. And it appears to me and non-Zionist Jewish writers like Alfred Lilienthal that prominent Zionist Jews capitalized on this anti-Semitism to promote their pet project, the establishment of Israel. It is not much in dispute that if no war, then no Holocaust, and therefore no Israel.

My own view is that no country has treated the Jews better than the United States, which completely obviates the need for Zionist paranoia. In any case, I am in favor of strict American neutrality. And I am skeptical about many Holocaust claims in the historiography.
Thanks in advance.
Your welcome. I hope I answered your questions.
:)

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#14

Post by James » 21 Mar 2002, 06:11

Scott:

That does clarify your earlier posting. I have additional questions or comments about Zionism, but they have little or nothing to do with The Third Reich per se. Being a new member, I will not tempt Fate and risk veering off topic. I am sure there will be opportunity in the future for more discussion on other threads. Thanks for the prompt and detailed response.

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#15

Post by Scott Smith » 21 Mar 2002, 07:07

Okay, James. I would be happy to answer any more questions in the future, although I am no expert and can only offer my opinions. Welcome to the forum!
:)

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