Some good WW2 military books

Discussions on books and other reference material on the WW1, Inter-War or WW2 as well as the authors. Hosted by Andy H.
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Panzermahn
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Post by Panzermahn » 01 Aug 2002 09:57

Yes, i would believe provided the book is with credible and methodical evidence such as eyewitness, documents, original photograps..For example, i don't think Seidler or de Zayas wants to make up stories of Russian Brutality unless it really happens..Come on if u are an author, i think that if u fake an atrocity or facts, sooner or later people going to find out and then u will get denounced and the repercussion will be on your reputation right?

For example, like the efforts of Konrad Morgen who defy Himmler himself against all odds to prosecute some of the SS camp commandants for criminal and brutal actions

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 01 Aug 2002 10:10

panzermahn,

No, I don't think the book is an impartial source considering what it is based on, ie material provided by only one side in a savage and brutal conflict.
That is not to say that is it not a source to be considered, however I would remain very sceptical of any claims in it unless they can be verified in some other (non-revisionist/pro-Third Reich) source.

/Marcus

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Post by Panzermahn » 01 Aug 2002 10:20

If u considered the antigerman mentality of the Allies and Bolsheviks after the end of WW2, do u expect the victors to wrote book regarding their atrocities towards the Germans..

For example, in the trial of Malmedy Massacre, Colonel Everett (defense counsel for the germans) are not allowed to mention by the court the shooting of German prisoners by the 45th Thunderbird Division in Italy

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 01 Aug 2002 10:30

panzermahn,

I don't expect any impartial and objective books on the war to be published by anyone in the years immediately after the war.

/Marcus

Panzermahn
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Post by Panzermahn » 01 Aug 2002 11:47

i would like to study the war crimes of the Allies and Russian Bolsheviks against the Germany in WW2..

And i think the Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau is an excellent book to begin with
Last edited by Panzermahn on 01 Aug 2002 15:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Starinov
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Post by Starinov » 01 Aug 2002 13:36

panzermahn wrote:i would like to study the war crimes of the Allies and Russian Bolsheviks against the Germany in WW2..

And i think the Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau is an excellent book to bein with


Gee, Panzie, you still don't get it, do you??

If you want to know what really happened, you have to use an unbiased source. A book written during or just after the war is not likely to be one of those. The best way to find out what happened, take a book from the 90-ties. It will have the latest research results about that subject. And try to avoid neo-nazi books. It is not a reliable source while studying history.

Now, you can take my advice or call it coagitation. 8O

Panzermahn
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Post by Panzermahn » 01 Aug 2002 15:20

Starinov,

Ur advice is useful and it's no coagitation..Thank you..But u must think, that would any victors wrote books about their own atrocities? Could u find any Jewish or whatever current establishment historians that wrote book about Jewish, Allied or Russian Bolshevik atrocities against Germans and their allies?

That's why i don't understand some of you..When any historians wrote books regarding the crimes committed by the Allies or Russian Bolsheviks against Germany and her allies, some of you are the first to label that particular historian as Neo-Nazi, Wehrmacht Apologist, SS Apologist...for example a lot people think that David Irving is a neo-nazi just because he let us see history from the other view, not from the victors view..Maybe some his views regarding holocaust denial that i find it repugnant but i do really enjoy his military books like Hitler's War and Destruction of Dresden. same case with Professor Seidler and Alfred De Zayas, when they wrote books that detailling with crimes of the Allies and Russian Bolsheviks against Germany, some of u be accusing them of be biased towards germany, impartial source, neo-nazis, just because it happened and most of the media doesn't like to spoilt the more-than-50-years image of the Heroic Allies and Russian Bolsheviks who saved the planet and humanity from Nazi Extermination

am i correct? history should not been seen from the victors point of view as well the revisionist point of view..There should be equilibirium between both.

I only know that David Irving is brave enough to wrote about the atrocities committed by the Allies towards innocent civillians in his book Destruction of Dresden..(i'm disgusted by his views on Holocaust denial. But u had to agree that he is trully a skillfull archivist and documentation expert)

So, could u tell me is there any books written by any historians that covers the topic of Allied and Russian Bolshevik War Crimes in WW2 apart from Professor Seidler and Alfred De Zayas..please let me know if u want me to study from an unbiased sourced because i only know that this 2 men wrote about Allied and Russian Bolshevik war crimes

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Post by AndyW » 07 Aug 2002 23:28

panzermahn wrote:But as u know, the Germans are very methodically organized and efficient in collecting evidence regarding the brutality of the BOlsheviks...so i think the evidence from the WEhrmacht War Crimes Bureau can be accepted as a credible source..something that most of the established historians didn't want to accept or ignore them...


Please read Zaya's own assesment on the reliability of the sources, her uncompleteness, her limitations and the context in which the sources were written.

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Post by AndyW » 08 Aug 2002 00:24

panzermahn wrote:So, could u tell me is there any books written by any historians that covers the topic of Allied and Russian Bolshevik War Crimes in WW2 apart from Professor Seidler and Alfred De Zayas..please let me know if u want me to study from an unbiased sourced because i only know that this 2 men wrote about Allied and Russian Bolshevik war crimes


I skip any literature regarding the fate of German POW in Soviet and Western Allied captivity, about Katyn and anything regarding the Western Allies, to short up the list.

In serious scholarship, there are no such things like "bolshevist war crimes"; I guess you use this phrase for war crimes committed by members of the Red Army or Soviet Union Officials against Axis troops or civilians. I also notice that you're limited to crimes commited in WW II, so I leave the post-war exspellation.

Lew Kopolev: "Aufbewahren für alle Zeit", 1982 (later writer and human rights activist K. was a propaganda officer in the Red Army during the advance into Germany)
Joachim Hoffmann: "Stalins Vernichtungskrieg 1941-1945", 1999 (quite biased, but good historic work; received critical reviews)

Helga Hirsch: "Die Rache der Opfer", 1998

Bernhard Fisch: "Nemmersdorf Oktober 1944", 1997 (F. was a German soldier who re-captured Nemmerdorf, his study show that the number of victims were less than 40 and sorts out what really happened comapred to German falsifications and propaganda tricks, very interesting)

Wilfried Ahrens: "Verbrechen an Deutschen", 1980

The books of Seidler and deZayas had already been mentioned.

It must be noted that some of the mentioned are written in a very "popular" style which lacks historical accuracy and limits their use for serious historic research.

Generally, you need to be considerably educated with the topic and willing to do an unbiased in-depth study to sort out the much pro-german propaganda in that books from the historical facts.

But it's also a nice, entertaining read for those who take anything for granted as long as it's just blaming the "bolshevics" :roll:

Cheers,

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Post by Panzermahn » 08 Aug 2002 01:48

AndyW,

Thank you for your information

Generally, you need to be considerably educated with the topic and willing to do an unbiased in-depth study to sort out the much pro-german propaganda in that books from the historical facts.


Agree...

But what i see from you list is that most of the authors are germans...I'm truly interested in the war crimes of the Allies and the Bolsheviks..is there any non-german source on the war crimes of the Allies and Russian Bolsheviks? (Apart from those revisionist like Irving, Weber, Carlo Mattogno, Faurisson, i don't think Faurisson involve much in the studies of war crimes)


But one must remember that he must also be willing to do a methodical and as well as a scholarly in-depth study about the war-crimes of WW2 without much anti-german propaganda generated by the Allies and Russian Bolsheviks during and after WW2.., right?

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