Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Discussions on the equipment used by the Axis forces, apart from the things covered in the other sections. Hosted by Juha Tompuri
Sturm78
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by Sturm78 » 14 Dec 2010 15:17

Hi all,

Three images from Ebay:

Regards Sturm78
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Sturm78
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by Sturm78 » 14 Dec 2010 15:18

....and one more:

Image from Ebay
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carius
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by carius » 15 Dec 2010 07:04

From eBay.de

George
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carius
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by carius » 16 Dec 2010 15:50

From eBay

George
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Clive Mortimore
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by Clive Mortimore » 16 Dec 2010 19:45

Hi George

Yet more wonderfull photos. I have not seen pontoons with covered decking before or those frames on the bows as in the first of your two most recent photos.
Clive

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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by StuBoFan » 18 Dec 2010 18:15

Hi, new user here.

I am interested in modelling some sturmboote and bridging equipment in 1/72, and one of the issues I am going to have to confront is colours for sturmboote, rubber boats, pontoons and such.

I have seen a colour (or colourized) photo of a B bridge that clearly shows grey pontoons, probably dunkelgrau. On the other hand, it's not unusual to see B&W photos with pontoons in some sort of wave or splinter camo as well.

For rubber boats, there is the well-known pioneer dinghy photo that seems to show the boat as a lightish-medium mouse grey. presumably this is the colour of the rubber itself, not a paint.

for sturmboote, some people guess dunkelgrau, others some sort of green, but the colour photos I have seen are just too murky to tell.

and then I came across this the other day: http://www.schwimmwagen.ch/pdf/H.T.V.BI.1943,Nr.376.pdf

If the text here is from an authentic document, it appears to be a supplement to the 1943 directive moving to dungelgelb/olivgrün/rotbraun for heer equipment. And if I read it right (my German is not the best), it sems to say that officially at least, some pioneer equipment was to remain in its previous colours (whatever those were); these include landungsboote, some bridge equipment (but not "B"), rubber boats, and "sturmboote 12 (schwer)" (I don't know if this is the StuBo 42 or something else. could be a typo, I know this pdf is not actually the original document). Other equipment was now to be painted according to the 1943 scheme; specific mention is made of pontoons and sturmboote.

I am tempted to infer that if all this equipment was discussed in terms of the new directive, it may previously have followed the earlier Heer scheme pre-1943, i.e. dunkelgrau. And dunkelgrau seems like a fairly sensible colour to use. But maybe this is a stretch?

Also, turning to post-1943, whatever the official directive, I don't recall seeing any photos of either sturmboote or pontoons that look light enough to be dunkelgelb, though as noted, you do see some darker-looking camo schemes on pontoons. And except for some boats up north with some white along the gunwales, I don't recall seeing any sturmboote with more than one colour.

Anyway, what this boils down to is, I am leaning toward dunkelgrau for all pontoons and boats (except the rubber ones) up into 1943, then afterwards maybe:

- certain specified older equipment (landungsboote, etc.) kept dunkelgrau in accordance with directives;

- other older sturmboote and pontoons kept dunkelgrau despite directives to the contrary;

- some older pontoons kept dunkelgrau but with a field-added splinter of olivgrün or rotbraun

- newer pontoons either olivgrün or rotbraun or a splinter of both but ignoring dunkelgelb

- newer sturmboote either olivgrün or rotbraun (the former makes more sense), again ignoring dunkelgelb

Any thoughts appreciated. Is there any evidence for dunkelgelb on pontoons or sturmboote? Or for the use of any non-standard colours?

thanks, and sorry for the long post....

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carius
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by carius » 18 Dec 2010 21:12

From eBay.de

George
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Clive Mortimore
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by Clive Mortimore » 18 Dec 2010 23:13

StuBoFan wrote:Hi, new user here.

I am interested in modelling some sturmboote and bridging equipment in 1/72, and one of the issues I am going to have to confront is colours for sturmboote, rubber boats, pontoons and such.

I have seen a colour (or colourized) photo of a B bridge that clearly shows grey pontoons, probably dunkelgrau. On the other hand, it's not unusual to see B&W photos with pontoons in some sort of wave or splinter camo as well.

For rubber boats, there is the well-known pioneer dinghy photo that seems to show the boat as a lightish-medium mouse grey. presumably this is the colour of the rubber itself, not a paint.

for sturmboote, some people guess dunkelgrau, others some sort of green, but the colour photos I have seen are just too murky to tell.

and then I came across this the other day: http://www.schwimmwagen.ch/pdf/H.T.V.BI.1943,Nr.376.pdf

If the text here is from an authentic document, it appears to be a supplement to the 1943 directive moving to dungelgelb/olivgrün/rotbraun for heer equipment. And if I read it right (my German is not the best), it sems to say that officially at least, some pioneer equipment was to remain in its previous colours (whatever those were); these include landungsboote, some bridge equipment (but not "B"), rubber boats, and "sturmboote 12 (schwer)" (I don't know if this is the StuBo 42 or something else. could be a typo, I know this pdf is not actually the original document). Other equipment was now to be painted according to the 1943 scheme; specific mention is made of pontoons and sturmboote.

I am tempted to infer that if all this equipment was discussed in terms of the new directive, it may previously have followed the earlier Heer scheme pre-1943, i.e. dunkelgrau. And dunkelgrau seems like a fairly sensible colour to use. But maybe this is a stretch?

Also, turning to post-1943, whatever the official directive, I don't recall seeing any photos of either sturmboote or pontoons that look light enough to be dunkelgelb, though as noted, you do see some darker-looking camo schemes on pontoons. And except for some boats up north with some white along the gunwales, I don't recall seeing any sturmboote with more than one colour.

Anyway, what this boils down to is, I am leaning toward dunkelgrau for all pontoons and boats (except the rubber ones) up into 1943, then afterwards maybe:

- certain specified older equipment (landungsboote, etc.) kept dunkelgrau in accordance with directives;

- other older sturmboote and pontoons kept dunkelgrau despite directives to the contrary;

- some older pontoons kept dunkelgrau but with a field-added splinter of olivgrün or rotbraun

- newer pontoons either olivgrün or rotbraun or a splinter of both but ignoring dunkelgelb

- newer sturmboote either olivgrün or rotbraun (the former makes more sense), again ignoring dunkelgelb

Any thoughts appreciated. Is there any evidence for dunkelgelb on pontoons or sturmboote? Or for the use of any non-standard colours?

thanks, and sorry for the long post....
Hi StuBoFan
I have not given the colours of the boats any deep consideration before as most photos indicate they are all a grey colour, possibly dunkelgrau as you suggest. Many photos on this thread seem to be pre-war or early war by the uniforms the men are wearing therefore I cannot comment of post 1943 colours as I cannot recall seeing any photos for the second half of the war. The engineers would be busy preparing to destroy bridges when retreating than build them.

The pre-war and very early war photos of the wavy camouflage colours I take to be the same grey and brown camouflage used on pre-war vehicles.

Here is a photo of a small rubber boat from an old E bay auction.
rubber boat.jpg
Sorry I could not be of more help.

I am going to have to rethink the colurs of the drawings I done for Junior General
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/donated/20 ... 5/boot.png
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/donated/20 ... /storm.png
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/donated/20 ... /sturm.png
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/donated/20 ... /boat1.png
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/donated/20 ... /boat2.png
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/donated/20 ... 7/boat.png
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Clive

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carius
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by carius » 20 Dec 2010 14:53

From eBay.de

George
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carius
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by carius » 21 Dec 2010 07:04

From eBay.de

George
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Sturm78
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by Sturm78 » 24 Dec 2010 11:03

Hi all,

Pionier bridge?? :?

Image from Ebay
Regards Sturm78
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Sturm78
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by Sturm78 » 30 Dec 2010 11:40

Hi all,

Image from Ebay

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StuBoFan
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by StuBoFan » 02 Jan 2011 18:12

Aha! pre-war camo. Good call. I didn't think of that, but it would explain a lot. Thanks, Clive.

You are right, so many of the photos look early. And in many, the men are wearing those white fatigues. I don't know if that was common for bridging columns in the field, or if it means a lot of them are shots of training exercises.

As for late war, no you wouldn't expect so many assaults, but surely they would be using sturmboote and pontoons for ferrying, even in retreat....but it is true there don't seem to be a lot of pictures...

One thing I noticed browsing through the pictures in this thread again is that maybe there are a few pontoons that might plausibly have some dunkelgelb on them (including the far right pontoon in the fifth most recent picture above). The picture nine pictures above, with the white "fender" markings on the pontoons is interesting too.

Another thing, that I hadn't noticed before, was apparant splinter on some rubber boats. Coloured rubber?

btw happy new year everyone

StuBoFan
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by StuBoFan » 02 Jan 2011 18:31

while I am here, here's a weird question. Was any of this equipment standard across other arms?

I can't imagine the Kriegsmarine being very impressed with the pionier sturmboot, but the rubber boats look like they could be standard for Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe lifeboats. And those M.-S. boats look like fairly generic launches that might have been used by the navy. Even the sturmboot motors; were they a fairly standard outboard motor used on other craft? Or did other arms have their own equipment made to different specs?

Sturm78
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Re: Pontoon Bridges and assault boats

Post by Sturm78 » 04 Jan 2011 12:39

Hi all,

Sturmboot 39:

Image from Ebay
Sturm78
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