How did german equipment do in the russian winter?

[Javier Acuña]

Hi!

I was wonndering how effective were german engines and machines in the russian campaign. I assume that at least in the first winter they had major problems with engines that won't start, broken starting air distribuitors by the swelling water within the partsand so. Please extent yourself as long as you can or point me a few source where I can read more

Thanks

[Kugelblitz]

They work fine, the only problem was on the Panzer III and IV with the narrow tracks, but they was solved with the enlarged ones.
The Panther and Tiger work well on winter due of their wide tracks.

[Christoph Awender]

They work fine

Ähem...Kugelblitz sorry to disagree. Nearly nothing worked any more at temperatures 40 degrees under zero. It was mainly a problem of lubricants and oils. Automatic Weapons were frozen, engines froze and can´t be started again etc....
I have fotos where soldiers make fire under a truck to heat him to a temperature where he can be started. At certain stages no movement was possible at all. The germans had no anti-freezing additions in the oils.
This and the high casualties from the low temperatures forced Hitler to give out the "stop-order" for the entire Ostfront. He refused to go back to better winter positions and ordered to stay where the units were which caused again many thousands of unnecessary casualties.

\Christoph

[20 Juli 1944]

Vet told me that they built a fire under the tank right below the
engine when ever they would park for any lenght of time. They
also would place bricks in the fire and heat them up. Then
place them in the breech of the gun to defrost the gun.
They would start the engines every 2 hrs and let them run for
30 mins.

[Kugelblitz]

They work fine

Ähem...Kugelblitz sorry to disagree.

No problem, you are right. I only say that by comparing it to other tanks at the same time, russians also have the common problems of the low temperatures.

[Christoph Awender]

Just one example from the war-diary of 4.Pz.Div.

"The low temperatures makes the defense nearly impossible. At tanks and artillery pieces the barrel-rejection (Rohrrücklauf) fails. The Kanoniere and Panzerjäger heat the locks over fire before using them. The riflemen keep the rifle locks in their pockets and put them just out shortly before they have to shoot. from now on the soldiers learn to keep their guns working with petroleum instead of oil."

\Christoph

[Christoph Awender]

No problem, you are right. I only say that by comparing it to other tanks at the same time, russians also have the common problems of the low temperatures.

Really? I am an Wehrmacht expert and don´t know much about russian equipment but I heard that they had no problems with their winter. I am sure someone can enlighten me.

\Christoph

[Witch-King of Angmar]

No problem, you are right. I only say that by comparing it to other tanks at the same time, russians also have the common problems of the low temperatures.

Really? I am an Wehrmacht expert and don´t know much about russian equipment but I heard that they had no problems with their winter. I am sure someone can enlighten me.

To start with, Soviet T-34 and KV-1 tanks had Diesel engines.. which are a pain in the ass to start in sub-zero temperatures.

There is some footage from the Sevastopol campaingn, showing German soldiers heating the crankcase & manifold of their engines with a blowtorch to allow them to start, after a cold night. 'Nuff said.

(Synthetics & multigrades were a distant dream back then)

~The Witch King of Angmar

[Christoph Awender]

To start with, Soviet T-34 and KV-1 tanks had Diesel engines.. which are a pain in the ass to start in sub-zero temperatures.

hmm In winter 1941 there were no T-34 available. So we would have to talk about the other types like T-26 etc...
And for me it is really hard to believe that the russians had major problems with their equipment in winter but I am open to corrections. Of course I understand that there were problems at these record low temperatures like 30-40 minus but I guess their tanks and vehicles worked much longer than their german counterparts.

\Christoph

[Kugelblitz]

If I remember correctly, the diesel fuel became a gel at low temperatures.
Also the russians had to start fire under their engines to put them in conditions of start.
About the T-34 in 1941, there was an important number of them lurking around, even the ones wearing 57mm anti-tank guns near Moscow .

[Javier Acuña]

from now on the soldiers learn to keep their guns working with petroleum instead of oil."

\Christoph

Hi, that sounds a little odd, because petroleum contain paraffins and paraffin generally have a high viscosity index so they tend to thicken up considerably at below 0 temperatures. Additives could be used to help keep the petroleum from thickening too much; but on the other hand, synthetic oils have no paraffin at all, so they thicken much less and work great even at -50ºC (-58ºF). Although I'm more aware of modern synthetic oil capabilities I believe the germans had excellent petrochemical engineers that could produce good synthetic oils.


Best Regards, Javier

[Javier Acuña]

If I remember correctly, the diesel fuel became a gel at low temperatures.

Hi

Diesel fuel contains paraffin, and paraffin at cold temperatures no longer remains suspended in the fuel in a liquid state and begins to form wax crystals, and that makes diesel oil to become "gel". That can be a killer to the engine, specially to the fuel filter in most modern cars.

Best Regards
Javier

[Starinov]

hmm In winter 1941 there were no T-34 available.

I am sorry to disagree with you but they were available in 1941. At least 1200 on June 1st 1941. Some were lost, more were built. T-34's took part in the Moscow Strategic Counter-Offensive in December 1941....

[Harri]

Germans didn't have special winter oils for engines and weapons, special hydraulics oils for guns (return mechanism) or special cooling liquids. Everyone can guess what will happen when all engines and weapons start jamming or freezing at the temperature of -10 C or more. Very soon most weapons and vehicles have stopped, are not working or are damaged. Only Luftwaffe was better prepared for cold conditions, but that is not a surprise because high in the sky -50 C is a normal temperature...

[Juha Tompuri]

Hi!

The German equipment had some problems at low temperatures, specially at the first winter. Oils getting stiff and (synthetic)rubber hardening and getting fragile were perhaps the main problems.
As Christoph pointed out the Germans learned to remove grease and oils from the guns, and to use gasoline as lubricant (in Finland also turpentine was used).
The rubber hardening at for instance at gasgets was a real problem too.

Regards, Juha

P.S. Luftwaffe method to solve the cold weather engine oil problems: http://www.jiop.fi/ksimuseo/faq_kaltstart.html ...anyone want to try?