stuka tank killer targeting

Discussions on the equipment used by the Axis forces, apart from the things covered in the other sections. Hosted by Juha Tompuri
User avatar
brau meister
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 20 Aug 2003 02:34
Location: Mass.

stuka tank killer targeting

Post by brau meister » 15 Dec 2003 22:26

How did pilots flying "tank killing" stukas aim the cannons mounted under the wings? With limited ammo and time to target, they must've required some sort of targeting system. It's not like they could just point the nose and shoot since the guns were under the wings. How did this work?

User avatar
Xavier
Financial supporter
Posts: 3242
Joined: 12 Nov 2002 02:01
Location: Swedish guinea

Post by Xavier » 15 Dec 2003 22:31

IMHO I think they would shoot with the small (cowl) Mg, and see the point of impact, and shoot the big guns as they stuck target with the small guns.

regards
Xavier
Instandsetzungtruppfuhrer
(formerly known as the link scrounger)

Duncan
Member
Posts: 281
Joined: 05 Oct 2003 12:39
Location: England

Post by Duncan » 15 Dec 2003 23:25

The Stukas were reknown for their accuracy and tank busting. The following website provides details of the automatic dive control, and bombing.

http://www.battleofbritain.net/0015.html

There is also a book called "Stuka Pilot" by Hans Ulrich Rudel (forward by Douglas Bader) 1952. He was highly decorated - Iron Cross, Knights Cross, Oak Leaves, the Swords, the Diamonds and so on.... He apparently knocked out 400 tanks and sank the battleship Marat. Apparently Hitler invented a new medal - unique - for this man.

Duncan

User avatar
Rommel8
Member
Posts: 1192
Joined: 13 Jun 2003 02:37
Location: Pennsylvania

Post by Rommel8 » 16 Dec 2003 01:54

you speak the truth duncan :)


He destroyed over 500 tanks, I think it was his geschwader not him alone that destroyed the large Russian battleship Marat.

The Stuka had an MG with extra ammo to line up shots.

Mind you though, each cannon only had 6 rounds per gun

User avatar
Sturmmann_Fritz
Member
Posts: 794
Joined: 06 May 2003 20:20
Location: South Carolina

Post by Sturmmann_Fritz » 16 Dec 2003 03:11

Does anyone have a pic of the Stuka with the wing-mounted cannons?

And what was the full name for the plane?

Happy Holidays

Auf Wiedersehen,

Fritz

User avatar
brau meister
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 20 Aug 2003 02:34
Location: Mass.

Post by brau meister » 16 Dec 2003 07:16

ahh, an MG to aim with, that's how it worked. Thanks for the info.

I hear Rudel would leave with 12 cannon shots and return with 12 kills. He was so good he only needed one shell per target. In addition to the few hundred tanks, he is also credited with roughly 1000 trucks and thin skinned vehicles. That works out to be more than a divisions worth of vehicles of all types no?

On the other hand, I've also heard he was an unrepentant nazi.

Paul Lakowski
Member
Posts: 1421
Joined: 30 Apr 2003 05:16
Location: Canada

Post by Paul Lakowski » 16 Dec 2003 09:01

brau meister wrote:ahh, an MG to aim with, that's how it worked. Thanks for the info.

I hear Rudel would leave with 12 cannon shots and return with 12 kills. He was so good he only needed one shell per target. In addition to the few hundred tanks, he is also credited with roughly 1000 trucks and thin skinned vehicles. That works out to be more than a divisions worth of vehicles of all types no?

On the other hand, I've also heard he was an unrepentant nazi.


more like a brigade...a division has 150-300 tanks plus 300-500 halftracks and 3000-4000 other wheeled vehicles.

Jurrie
Member
Posts: 486
Joined: 03 Sep 2002 10:54
Location: Holland,The Netherlands

Post by Jurrie » 16 Dec 2003 10:57

Sturmmann_Fritz wrote:Does anyone have a pic of the Stuka with the wing-mounted cannons?

And what was the full name for the plane?

Happy Holidays

Auf Wiedersehen,

Fritz


Pics:

http://www.bfnation.net/vehicles/stuka/stuka.jpg

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron_cr ... /Stuka.gif

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LR ... u87g-4.jpg

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LR ... u87g-6.jpg

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LR ... u87g-1.jpg

It is the Ju 87G (Junkers 87 Gustav) with its many variants.
Stuka stands for "sturzkamfflugzeug" or divebomber

Jurrie

User avatar
Sturmmann_Fritz
Member
Posts: 794
Joined: 06 May 2003 20:20
Location: South Carolina

Post by Sturmmann_Fritz » 16 Dec 2003 14:51

Thanks for the pics Jurri! Happy Holidays all!

Auf Wiedersehen,

Fritz

User avatar
K-9
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 24 Sep 2003 17:40
Location: Romania

Post by K-9 » 17 Dec 2003 11:17

This might be inaccurate, but in IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles computer game, the Stuka Ju-87 Tank buster has a reticle for aiming... had the Stuka a reticle for aiming in reality?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Xnomad
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 23:55
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Post by Xnomad » 17 Dec 2003 20:19

Sure the Stukas used ordinary ReVi (Reflektions Visier) Gunsights and some even used a StuVi that aided in dive bombing.

I can't see why the G model wouldn't use a ReVi too. Did the G have MG's as well as the cannons? I thought it only had the two PAK cannons.

Doesn't everyone who posts about WWII planes play IL2 FB???!!!!! If they don't they should!

from:
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/b ... /ju87.html

"The Ju 87A did not see combat, with the exception of three aircraft which were sent to Spain during the civil war, but it was important in the development of the automatic bombing system of the Ju 87. This consisted of an Askania autopilot, which was used together with a Revi gunsight."

User avatar
K-9
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 24 Sep 2003 17:40
Location: Romania

Post by K-9 » 17 Dec 2003 20:24

Xnomad wrote: Did the G have MG's as well as the cannons? I thought it only had the two PAK cannons.

Doesn't everyone who posts about WWII planes play IL2 FB???!!!!! If they don't they should!


In Il-2 FB the Stuka G-1 has only a pair of cannons, but no MG,... but again, can we consider Il-2 Sturmovik a reliable source? And is that Stuka cockpit historical accurate in the game?

User avatar
LegalAssassin
Member
Posts: 353
Joined: 25 Oct 2003 17:24
Location: Kalmar, Sweden

Post by LegalAssassin » 17 Dec 2003 22:04

The nickname for the tankbusting versions of the Stuka was Kanonenvogel, or canonbird.

User avatar
Rommel8
Member
Posts: 1192
Joined: 13 Jun 2003 02:37
Location: Pennsylvania

Post by Rommel8 » 17 Dec 2003 22:44

yes cockpit is accurate

how ever, the G-1 i think didnt have an MG..it was the G-6 IIRC

User avatar
tramonte
Member
Posts: 144
Joined: 13 Oct 2015 10:05
Location: Finland

Re: stuka tank killer targeting

Post by tramonte » 01 May 2018 22:16

Luftwaffe had some 650 ground attack aircraft (Stukas, FW-190's etc) in Eastern Front before summer 1944. And even Fremde Ost estimated just 1 090 Soviet combat armor destroyed (or likely knocked out) by any Luftwaffe aircraft during whole year 1944. Highest estimate was for July (210) while only 20 for June 130 for August. When even Fremde Ost was skeptical of Luftwaffe's ability to destroy/knock out Soviet armor then clearly the real number of ground attack aircraft (Schlachtgeschwader) eliminating Soviet tanks and assault guns might have been relatively low, just about 2% of all Soviet AFV losses.

In Kursk (Citadel) some 2-5% of Soviet tank losses (1 956 by Frieser) was caused by Luftwaffe when Soviet officials studies reasons for their tank losses. In France 1940 only 2% of French armor losses (total some 1 750) were caused by Luftwaffe. So we have lots of reasons to estimate that July 44 figure of 210 Soviet armor lost because Luftwaffe give us perspective. Luftwaffe need at least 3 ground attack aircraft for every enemy armor knocked out per month. At best. Besides Fremde Ost estimated Soviet tank losses to have been over 32 000. In reality Soviet U wrote off 23 700 tanks and assault guns in 1944 and much less than 20 000 AFV were destroyed in battle front.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

Return to “Other Equipment”