stuka tank killer targeting

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Funksammler
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Re: stuka tank killer targeting

Post by Funksammler » 08 May 2018 21:55

brau meister wrote:How did pilots flying "tank killing" stukas aim the cannons mounted under the wings? With limited ammo and time to target, they must've required some sort of targeting system. It's not like they could just point the nose and shoot since the guns were under the wings. How did this work?
The weapons were aimed via the Revi (reflective gunsight), there was no shooting in with machine guns etc, just point and shoot. You can read all about the Ju 87 G-2 setup here: http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv ... K%2043.pdf

It can be that the link does not work properly as the old website is being transferred. In that case you can navigate to the old website manually (www.deutscheluftwaffe.com), search the document section for the Ju87 G-2.

regards,

Funksammler

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Sheldrake
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Re:

Post by Sheldrake » 08 May 2018 23:42

Paul Lakowski wrote:
brau meister wrote:ahh, an MG to aim with, that's how it worked. Thanks for the info.

I hear Rudel would leave with 12 cannon shots and return with 12 kills. He was so good he only needed one shell per target. In addition to the few hundred tanks, he is also credited with roughly 1000 trucks and thin skinned vehicles. That works out to be more than a divisions worth of vehicles of all types no?

On the other hand, I've also heard he was an unrepentant nazi.
more like a brigade...a division has 150-300 tanks plus 300-500 half-tracks and 3000-4000 other wheeled vehicles.
I am not sure about the veracity of Rudel's kills. Allied Air forces regularly over claimed in their attacks on German AFVs - according to scientific Operational Research studies. It was very difficult for an airman to distinguish between a hulk and live tank and to distinguish between a KO and lesser damage.

Were the Germans any more rigorous in their air to ground claims? They were wildly out in 1940. The Germans rarely occupied the battlefield after Rudel's attacks. How did they now that his kills were that? Or was the propaganda value of a miracle more important?

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Ironmachine
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Re: stuka tank killer targeting

Post by Ironmachine » 09 May 2018 06:59

Sheldrake wrote:
Paul Lakowski wrote:
brau meister wrote:ahh, an MG to aim with, that's how it worked. Thanks for the info.
I hear Rudel would leave with 12 cannon shots and return with 12 kills. He was so good he only needed one shell per target. In addition to the few hundred tanks, he is also credited with roughly 1000 trucks and thin skinned vehicles. That works out to be more than a divisions worth of vehicles of all types no?
On the other hand, I've also heard he was an unrepentant nazi.
more like a brigade...a division has 150-300 tanks plus 300-500 half-tracks and 3000-4000 other wheeled vehicles.
I am not sure about the veracity of Rudel's kills. Allied Air forces regularly over claimed in their attacks on German AFVs - according to scientific Operational Research studies. It was very difficult for an airman to distinguish between a hulk and live tank and to distinguish between a KO and lesser damage.
Were the Germans any more rigorous in their air to ground claims? They were wildly out in 1940. The Germans rarely occupied the battlefield after Rudel's attacks. How did they now that his kills were that? Or was the propaganda value of a miracle more important?
This link is worth a look:
http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/ubb/Forum ... 00016.html
It seems that when talking about German air-to-ground claims in WWII, all that glitters is not gold (including Rudel's tales).

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Sheldrake
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Re: stuka tank killer targeting

Post by Sheldrake » 09 May 2018 09:04

Ironmachine wrote:
Sheldrake wrote:
Paul Lakowski wrote:
brau meister wrote:ahh, an MG to aim with, that's how it worked. Thanks for the info.
I hear Rudel would leave with 12 cannon shots and return with 12 kills. He was so good he only needed one shell per target. In addition to the few hundred tanks, he is also credited with roughly 1000 trucks and thin skinned vehicles. That works out to be more than a divisions worth of vehicles of all types no?
On the other hand, I've also heard he was an unrepentant nazi.
more like a brigade...a division has 150-300 tanks plus 300-500 half-tracks and 3000-4000 other wheeled vehicles.
I am not sure about the veracity of Rudel's kills. Allied Air forces regularly over claimed in their attacks on German AFVs - according to scientific Operational Research studies. It was very difficult for an airman to distinguish between a hulk and live tank and to distinguish between a KO and lesser damage.
Were the Germans any more rigorous in their air to ground claims? They were wildly out in 1940. The Germans rarely occupied the battlefield after Rudel's attacks. How did they now that his kills were that? Or was the propaganda value of a miracle more important?
This link is worth a look:
http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/ubb/Forum ... 00016.html
It seems that when talking about German air-to-ground claims in WWII, all that glitters is not gold (including Rudel's tales).
Thank you. A useful link to a interesting discussion which throws up the question of "service political" bias in post war sources.

The story of the Germans stopping an entire tank brigade by anti tank aircraft acting alone has been an important case study supporting the development of anti tank helicopters and the fixed wing A10 as the solution to Warsaw Pact Armour. (Air land 2000 anyone?)

Tony Williams
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Re: stuka tank killer targeting

Post by Tony Williams » 24 May 2018 14:05

This article gives details of the guns and ammunition used on tank-buster aircraft of various nations in WW2: http://quarryhs.co.uk/tankbusters.htm
Military Guns & Ammunition website http://quarryhs.co.uk

Laurence Strong
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Re:

Post by Laurence Strong » 25 May 2018 00:11

K-9 wrote: In Il-2 FB the Stuka G-1 has only a pair of cannons, but no MG,... but again, can we consider Il-2 Sturmovik a reliable source? And is that Stuka cockpit historical accurate in the game?
The Ju87-G1, some had fixed wing armament and some removed it..

The Ju87-G2 deleted the fixed wing armament...

Source: The great book of WW2 Airplanes. The Ju section was written by Alex Vanags-Baginskis


Cheers
Larry

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