Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Discussions on the equipment used by the Axis forces, apart from the things covered in the other sections. Hosted by Juha Tompuri
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stril
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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by stril » 22 Mar 2010 09:38

Hello
Seems like a interesting album is up for sale.
regards
stril

http://cgi.ebay.de/Fotoalbum-NJG1-Nacht ... 5ad81eb71b

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SES
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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by SES » 22 Mar 2010 10:55

Hi,
Indeed it is. I see a possible connection to this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Album-NJG1-Nachtjagd ... 5ad81254af

bregds
SES

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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by SES » 22 Mar 2010 16:02

Hi,
I have just reviewed the pictures in the album with link posted by stril, on at least two pictures HASE is mentioned, so the two albums are from the same site.
bregds
SES

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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by stril » 22 Mar 2010 16:10

Indeed it is. I see a possible connection to this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Album-NJG1-Nachtjagd ... 5ad81254af
This a treasure :-)
regards
stril

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SES
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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by SES » 22 Mar 2010 17:05

Yes - at a price. On the auction I posted please note the picture Geräte Zug: The Jagdschloss, two W-R, a Freya LZ C, a Heinrich Peiler, the Funk Stelle and a Freya Fahrstuhl. This drawing is classified !
bregds
SES

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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by SES » 25 Mar 2010 08:16

and one more sequence of photos from the same series:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Fotoalbum-NJG1-Nacht ... 5ad8269461
bregds
SES

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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by Nordavind » 29 May 2010 04:22

SES wrote:The top photo depicts a Spinne. The ruler is fixed in the position of the radar on the map it is the used to plot range and bearing. Polar coordinates are in this way converted to geographical coordinates using the Jägergradnetz.
Hi SES,

Do you know about some other grid used with the Luftwaffe then the Jägergradnetz? A few years ago we (museum airbase Deelen) found a 2 x 3 meter glass map with a different grid system near Wolfgang Falck's HQ. This system uses just numbers, no letters.

At the end of last year, the Dutch Army gave us acces to the building where this map would have been placed. We found, amongst other things, pieces of paper used for the "Auswertung". The most were dated and contained some info we didn't understand first. There was always a number like "239574" or "13794673". When we found some of the same papers saying "Abschuß", I realised it could be some grid reference. Checking the Nachtjagd claims, date and time were correct, and the number corresponded with the grid system on "our" glass map.

Strangely, the pieces of the giant map in Diogenes we have, use the Jägernetz grid with letters. This bunker is just 2 miles down the road, and used a different grid at the same time. Do you know what grid they used at "Klein Heidelager"?

Regards,
Paul

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SES
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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by SES » 29 May 2010 07:36

Hi Paul,
Initially the LW used the Gradnetzmeldeverfahren based on a pre-war system and this used numbers only. Please see:
http://www.stormbirds.com/eagles/resear ... dnetz.html

In May 1943 this was replaced by the Jägermeldenetz.

So the buiding with the pre May 43 map might have been in use for a while, before it was replaced by the larger NJG 1 GefStd/Kasino.

Klein Heidelager is that the large T-shaped, Pre-Diogenes building?
bregds
SES

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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by Nordavind » 29 May 2010 18:16

Hi SES,

Thanx for the reply.
I believe you are correct about the Gradnetzmeldeverfahren.
The map uses the Großtrapez having a two digit number, this is devided into 8 squares. These were divided into 9 squares.
The glass map is believed to be made in '41, so that would explain why the Jägermeldenetz wasn't used (I didn't know it was introduced in '43).

The building isn't the T-shaped pre-Diogenes building. It is where the pilots were stationed, a U-shaped building a few miles East. Falck's office was in the same building. On your website is a photo with Falck and Kammhuber in front of this building.
It was built in '40/'41 in an L-shape. In '42 they added the Gefechtsstand to it, giving it the U-shape.
I added a Google Earth printscrean of the building. Red is the Gefechtsstand, yellow is where we believe the glass map was, and purple is Falck's office. On wartime pictures in the Gefechtsstand, a glass wall with door is separating the yellow marked part. The glass was covered with black-out paper, that's why we believe the map was there.

The papers we found all used the Gradnetzmeldeverfahren, and some are dated '44. So why didn't they upgade to the new grid used in Diogenes? That's what I don't understand. Didn't they work together with Diogenes?

Regards,
Paul
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SES
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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by SES » 29 May 2010 20:05

Hi,
Thank you for the clarification. The other words The Officers Mess at Deelen.
I can only offer a WAG and that is that the FLUKOs/FLUWAs continued to use the old system, but the radarstations and the Zentral GefStd had converted to the new system.
Could you possibly scan and post one of the documents you have found.
bregds
SES

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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by Nordavind » 29 May 2010 20:29

Hi,

Indeed, after the war it was used as the officers Mess.
If possible, I will scan one of them tomorrow after closinghour.
The early ones have a "+", "-" or "black dot" in the corner. Late ones (bad quality paper) have a red, yellow or green corner.
The size is about A6 paper format. I believe on top was written "Aufnahme", and below "Ausgewertet durch:"

Regards,
Paul

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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by SES » 29 May 2010 21:58

Hi Paul.
Looking forward to that.
bregds
SES

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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by Nordavind » 01 Jun 2010 03:13

As prommised, some of these papers.
Added a picture of the 10.000 piece map too.
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SES
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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by SES » 01 Jun 2010 06:34

Hi Paul,
Thank you.
Form K 516 is no doubt a reporting form used in the early system for recording reports and plotting of tracks. For a long while this was done in writing, which of course delayed the plotting process, but ensured documentation.
In this context Aufgenommen is best transliterated as Recieved and Ausgewerted as Plotted. These reports were received in in Abneme Raum and hand carried to the plotter.
Later the plotter was in direct, hot-line telephone connection with the teller in the radarstation and all communication was wire recorded.
bregds
SES

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Re: Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Post by stril » 05 Aug 2010 09:38

Funk or what ?
regards
stril

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