Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites
Hello all
This radarsite is situated in Thyborøn. It was called "Lama" and had 18 large bunkers and the following radars:
1 Wassermann M / 2 Freya / 2 WR / 1 y-Radiopejler
This site was controlled from the L487. This bunker is today on the beach, and it is with great danger to acces it. It is in two storages, and the lower floor is filled with water, and there are big gaps in the floor.
Picture L487 Lama - Thyborøn.
This radarsite is situated in Thyborøn. It was called "Lama" and had 18 large bunkers and the following radars:
1 Wassermann M / 2 Freya / 2 WR / 1 y-Radiopejler
This site was controlled from the L487. This bunker is today on the beach, and it is with great danger to acces it. It is in two storages, and the lower floor is filled with water, and there are big gaps in the floor.
Picture L487 Lama - Thyborøn.
- Attachments
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- L 487 Lama.jpg (153.93 KiB) Viewed 2892 times
Next:
The Flak battery for protection of the radarsite, this is a L411A bunker for searchlight. It is today under water - either because the bunker has sunk, or because the waterlevel has rised ??
There is buildt 32 of theese - and in Denmark there is 26 of this type ( According to Rudi Rolf )
The type L409A are buildt 86 - In Denmark is 66 ( also according to Rudi Rolf )
So many of the LW regelbau bunkers are buildt in Denmark.
The Flak battery for protection of the radarsite, this is a L411A bunker for searchlight. It is today under water - either because the bunker has sunk, or because the waterlevel has rised ??
There is buildt 32 of theese - and in Denmark there is 26 of this type ( According to Rudi Rolf )
The type L409A are buildt 86 - In Denmark is 66 ( also according to Rudi Rolf )
So many of the LW regelbau bunkers are buildt in Denmark.
- Attachments
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- L 411a Sælhundeholm.jpg (138.08 KiB) Viewed 2886 times
Next:
Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241. From here was managed the observations from other marine posts along the coast. Among them Nymindegab ( radar ) / Bjerregård-Årgab ( radar ) / Hvide Sande, Nr. Lyngvig, Søndervig ( radar ) / Fjand ( radar ) / and north of there - Agger ( radar ) / Lodbjerg, Stenbjerg ( radar ).
There was radiocommunication with all those marineposts and from the Fl241 there was also communicationslines to other bigger radarsites.
There is buildt 7 of this type, in Denmark is 3 ( According to Rudi Rolf )
Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241. From here was managed the observations from other marine posts along the coast. Among them Nymindegab ( radar ) / Bjerregård-Årgab ( radar ) / Hvide Sande, Nr. Lyngvig, Søndervig ( radar ) / Fjand ( radar ) / and north of there - Agger ( radar ) / Lodbjerg, Stenbjerg ( radar ).
There was radiocommunication with all those marineposts and from the Fl241 there was also communicationslines to other bigger radarsites.
There is buildt 7 of this type, in Denmark is 3 ( According to Rudi Rolf )
- Attachments
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- Thyborøn, Fl241.1.JPG (155.37 KiB) Viewed 2884 times
Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241.
Hej Kurt. Can you document that the radars you mentioned actually reported to this bunker. I f you can it is news to me but logical, but I would love to se documentation.kstdk wrote:Next:
Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241. From here was managed the observations from other marine posts along the coast. Among them Nymindegab ( radar ) / Bjerregård-Årgab ( radar ) / Hvide Sande, Nr. Lyngvig, Søndervig ( radar ) / Fjand ( radar ) / and north of there - Agger ( radar ) / Lodbjerg, Stenbjerg ( radar ).
There was radiocommunication with all those marineposts and from the Fl241 there was also communicationslines to other bigger radarsites.
There is buildt 7 of this type, in Denmark is 3 ( According to Rudi Rolf )
Regards
SES
Re: Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241.
[quote="SES"]
Hej Kurt. Can you document that the radars you mentioned actually reported to this bunker. I f you can it is news to me but logical, but I would love to se documentation.
Regards
SES
Hej SES
Not actual documentation, because i have the information secondhand !!
But i beleive that the person stating this is reliable - though !!
The information is taken from the publication:
"Fæstningsværker i Ringkøbing Amt" - by Bent Bågøe Anthonisen and Karsten Juul. Published 1989 - ISBN 87-7743-006-9 - by Ringkøbing Amtskommune.
In this publication is statet: I qoute -
"The Fl241 bunker was commandbunker and controlcenter for a long coastline. Among that line was several marineposts: Nymindegab ( radar ), Bjerregård, Årgab ( radar ), Hvide Sande, Nr.Lyngvig, Søndervig ( which was localcenter and had radar ) Brunbjerg ( by Vest Stadil Fjord ), Fjand ( radar ), Thorsminde, Fjaltring, Bovbjerg ( radar ), Vrist, Thyborøn and north of the Limfjord - Agger ( radar ), Lodbjerg, Stenbjerg ( radar ) and Vorupør.
From the Fl.241 in Thyborøn there were telephonelines to other major marinecenters in Denmark. In the commandroom in this bunker is still visible ( on the north side ) the telephoneboxes in which the reports from the many sites went in."
End of quote.
I dont know if that can be called documentation, but thats the fairly correct translation of the text in the above mentioned book.
Regards
Kurt
kstdk.
Hej Kurt. Can you document that the radars you mentioned actually reported to this bunker. I f you can it is news to me but logical, but I would love to se documentation.
Regards
SES
Hej SES
Not actual documentation, because i have the information secondhand !!
But i beleive that the person stating this is reliable - though !!
The information is taken from the publication:
"Fæstningsværker i Ringkøbing Amt" - by Bent Bågøe Anthonisen and Karsten Juul. Published 1989 - ISBN 87-7743-006-9 - by Ringkøbing Amtskommune.
In this publication is statet: I qoute -
"The Fl241 bunker was commandbunker and controlcenter for a long coastline. Among that line was several marineposts: Nymindegab ( radar ), Bjerregård, Årgab ( radar ), Hvide Sande, Nr.Lyngvig, Søndervig ( which was localcenter and had radar ) Brunbjerg ( by Vest Stadil Fjord ), Fjand ( radar ), Thorsminde, Fjaltring, Bovbjerg ( radar ), Vrist, Thyborøn and north of the Limfjord - Agger ( radar ), Lodbjerg, Stenbjerg ( radar ) and Vorupør.
From the Fl.241 in Thyborøn there were telephonelines to other major marinecenters in Denmark. In the commandroom in this bunker is still visible ( on the north side ) the telephoneboxes in which the reports from the many sites went in."
End of quote.
I dont know if that can be called documentation, but thats the fairly correct translation of the text in the above mentioned book.
Regards
Kurt
kstdk.
Re: Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241.
kstdk wrote:SES wrote:
Hej Kurt. Can you document that the radars you mentioned actually reported to this bunker. I f you can it is news to me but logical, but I would love to se documentation.
Regards
SES
Hej SES
Not actual documentation, because i have the information secondhand !!
But i beleive that the person stating this is reliable - though !!
The information is taken from the publication:
"Fæstningsværker i Ringkøbing Amt" - by Bent Bågøe Anthonisen and Karsten Juul. Published 1989 - ISBN 87-7743-006-9 - by Ringkøbing Amtskommune.
In this publication is statet: I qoute -
"The Fl241 bunker was commandbunker and controlcenter for a long coastline. Among that line was several marineposts: Nymindegab ( radar ), Bjerregård, Årgab ( radar ), Hvide Sande, Nr.Lyngvig, Søndervig ( which was localcenter and had radar ) Brunbjerg ( by Vest Stadil Fjord ), Fjand ( radar ), Thorsminde, Fjaltring, Bovbjerg ( radar ), Vrist, Thyborøn and north of the Limfjord - Agger ( radar ), Lodbjerg, Stenbjerg ( radar ) and Vorupør.
From the Fl.241 in Thyborøn there were telephonelines to other major marinecenters in Denmark. In the commandroom in this bunker is still visible ( on the north side ) the telephoneboxes in which the reports from the many sites went in."
End of quote.
I dont know if that can be called documentation, but thats the fairly correct translation of the text in the above mentioned book.
Regards
Kurt
kstdk.Hi Kurt.
This is not what I consider documentation. The author has no reference and MIGHT be guessing. Documentation is an original or copy of an original file. And in my research I have not come across a realy good explanation of this bunker. And there is no help to be found in the organization as we know it in FEB 1945.
Regards
SES
Because of the above discussion about "command" bunker I think it's good time to ask a question on communications.
How were the radar stations linked? With radio links, ground cables, or both? There are known maps showing links between stations. For example in Norway - see: http://home.online.no/~la8ak/k58.htm
Were there any signal amplifying stations? What is a "Richtfunk Verbindung" station?
brgds, M
How were the radar stations linked? With radio links, ground cables, or both? There are known maps showing links between stations. For example in Norway - see: http://home.online.no/~la8ak/k58.htm
Were there any signal amplifying stations? What is a "Richtfunk Verbindung" station?
brgds, M
And another question, I think pretty interesting:
We speak a lot about radars and Himmelbett system. But very little about the Y-Dienst. The Internet isn't very helpful, too.
1. What exactly was a Y-Peiler?
I can think of 3 possible use cases:
- passive: Finding bearing from ground to an enemy aircraft emitting some radiowaves (eg. H2S)
- active: Sending signals helping friendly fighters to "get a fix" on their current position
- mixed: Sending signals plus receiving them (via the fighter interrogating device - transponder) and thus locating fighters
2. Did every station usually have Y-Peilers? How much? I read that they were helpful in case of use of electronic countermeasures (e.g. "Window/Dueppel").
3. How were the Y-stations equipped? There is one Stellung in Poland which for sure had a single W-R.
4. What was the major difference between a Himmelbett station and Y-station? Did Y-stations communicate directly to fighters?
Thank you a lot for any answer.
brgds,M
We speak a lot about radars and Himmelbett system. But very little about the Y-Dienst. The Internet isn't very helpful, too.
1. What exactly was a Y-Peiler?
I can think of 3 possible use cases:
- passive: Finding bearing from ground to an enemy aircraft emitting some radiowaves (eg. H2S)
- active: Sending signals helping friendly fighters to "get a fix" on their current position
- mixed: Sending signals plus receiving them (via the fighter interrogating device - transponder) and thus locating fighters
2. Did every station usually have Y-Peilers? How much? I read that they were helpful in case of use of electronic countermeasures (e.g. "Window/Dueppel").
3. How were the Y-stations equipped? There is one Stellung in Poland which for sure had a single W-R.
4. What was the major difference between a Himmelbett station and Y-station? Did Y-stations communicate directly to fighters?
Thank you a lot for any answer.
brgds,M
Last edited by beaviso on 01 Apr 2004, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.