Luftwaffe and Marine Radarsites

Discussions on the equipment used by the Axis forces, apart from the things covered in the other sections. Hosted by Juha Tompuri
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SES
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[color=red]www.gyges.dk update[/color]

#91

Post by SES » 24 Feb 2004, 18:54


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kstdk
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#92

Post by kstdk » 26 Feb 2004, 15:18

Hello all

This radarsite is situated in Thyborøn. It was called "Lama" and had 18 large bunkers and the following radars:

1 Wassermann M / 2 Freya / 2 WR / 1 y-Radiopejler

This site was controlled from the L487. This bunker is today on the beach, and it is with great danger to acces it. It is in two storages, and the lower floor is filled with water, and there are big gaps in the floor.

Picture L487 Lama - Thyborøn.
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L 487 Lama.jpg
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#93

Post by kstdk » 26 Feb 2004, 15:19

Next:

L487 - interior picture.
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L 487 Lama.1.jpg
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#94

Post by kstdk » 26 Feb 2004, 15:20

Next:

Old picture of the area.
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Thyborøn, Lama - 1945, WR + Freya LZ - C + Freya LZ Verbunkert.jpg
Thyborøn, Lama - 1945, WR + Freya LZ - C + Freya LZ Verbunkert.jpg (138.88 KiB) Viewed 2892 times

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#95

Post by kstdk » 26 Feb 2004, 15:25

Next:

The Flak battery for protection of the radarsite, this is a L411A bunker for searchlight. It is today under water - either because the bunker has sunk, or because the waterlevel has rised ??

There is buildt 32 of theese - and in Denmark there is 26 of this type ( According to Rudi Rolf )

The type L409A are buildt 86 - In Denmark is 66 ( also according to Rudi Rolf )

So many of the LW regelbau bunkers are buildt in Denmark.
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L 411a Sælhundeholm.jpg
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#96

Post by kstdk » 26 Feb 2004, 15:27

Next:

An old photo of the WR of the Lama radarsite.
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Thyborøn - Lama, Würtzburg Riese, serienummer D9.jpg
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#97

Post by kstdk » 26 Feb 2004, 15:32

Next:

Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241. From here was managed the observations from other marine posts along the coast. Among them Nymindegab ( radar ) / Bjerregård-Årgab ( radar ) / Hvide Sande, Nr. Lyngvig, Søndervig ( radar ) / Fjand ( radar ) / and north of there - Agger ( radar ) / Lodbjerg, Stenbjerg ( radar ).
There was radiocommunication with all those marineposts and from the Fl241 there was also communicationslines to other bigger radarsites.

There is buildt 7 of this type, in Denmark is 3 ( According to Rudi Rolf )
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Thyborøn, Fl241.1.JPG
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#98

Post by kstdk » 26 Feb 2004, 15:35

Next:

The Fl241 is in use today by the Marine, and is used to almost the same jobs as then. It is therefore in god condition, and many of the installations were still usable in 1989 when the Marine took over the bunker.
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Thyborøn, Fl241 inde.1.jpg
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#99

Post by kstdk » 26 Feb 2004, 15:36

Next:

It took a lot of manpower and hard work to empty the bunker of water and sand and to make the installations up to date.
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Thyborøn, Fl241 inde.jpg
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#100

Post by kstdk » 26 Feb 2004, 15:40

Next:

A map of the area in Thyborøn, you can see the positions of the different sites in the area.

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Kurt
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Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241.

#101

Post by SES » 26 Feb 2004, 15:44

kstdk wrote:Next:

Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241. From here was managed the observations from other marine posts along the coast. Among them Nymindegab ( radar ) / Bjerregård-Årgab ( radar ) / Hvide Sande, Nr. Lyngvig, Søndervig ( radar ) / Fjand ( radar ) / and north of there - Agger ( radar ) / Lodbjerg, Stenbjerg ( radar ).
There was radiocommunication with all those marineposts and from the Fl241 there was also communicationslines to other bigger radarsites.

There is buildt 7 of this type, in Denmark is 3 ( According to Rudi Rolf )
Hej Kurt. Can you document that the radars you mentioned actually reported to this bunker. I f you can it is news to me but logical, but I would love to se documentation.
Regards
SES

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Re: Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241.

#102

Post by kstdk » 26 Feb 2004, 17:27

[quote="SES"]

Hej Kurt. Can you document that the radars you mentioned actually reported to this bunker. I f you can it is news to me but logical, but I would love to se documentation.
Regards
SES


Hej SES

Not actual documentation, because i have the information secondhand !!
But i beleive that the person stating this is reliable - though !!
The information is taken from the publication:

"Fæstningsværker i Ringkøbing Amt" - by Bent Bågøe Anthonisen and Karsten Juul. Published 1989 - ISBN 87-7743-006-9 - by Ringkøbing Amtskommune.

In this publication is statet: I qoute -

"The Fl241 bunker was commandbunker and controlcenter for a long coastline. Among that line was several marineposts: Nymindegab ( radar ), Bjerregård, Årgab ( radar ), Hvide Sande, Nr.Lyngvig, Søndervig ( which was localcenter and had radar ) Brunbjerg ( by Vest Stadil Fjord ), Fjand ( radar ), Thorsminde, Fjaltring, Bovbjerg ( radar ), Vrist, Thyborøn and north of the Limfjord - Agger ( radar ), Lodbjerg, Stenbjerg ( radar ) and Vorupør.
From the Fl.241 in Thyborøn there were telephonelines to other major marinecenters in Denmark. In the commandroom in this bunker is still visible ( on the north side ) the telephoneboxes in which the reports from the many sites went in."

End of quote.

I dont know if that can be called documentation, but thats the fairly correct translation of the text in the above mentioned book.

Regards
Kurt
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Re: Nearby is the Marine commandbunker Fl241.

#103

Post by SES » 26 Feb 2004, 18:41

kstdk wrote:
SES wrote:
Hej Kurt. Can you document that the radars you mentioned actually reported to this bunker. I f you can it is news to me but logical, but I would love to se documentation.
Regards
SES


Hej SES

Not actual documentation, because i have the information secondhand !!
But i beleive that the person stating this is reliable - though !!
The information is taken from the publication:

"Fæstningsværker i Ringkøbing Amt" - by Bent Bågøe Anthonisen and Karsten Juul. Published 1989 - ISBN 87-7743-006-9 - by Ringkøbing Amtskommune.

In this publication is statet: I qoute -

"The Fl241 bunker was commandbunker and controlcenter for a long coastline. Among that line was several marineposts: Nymindegab ( radar ), Bjerregård, Årgab ( radar ), Hvide Sande, Nr.Lyngvig, Søndervig ( which was localcenter and had radar ) Brunbjerg ( by Vest Stadil Fjord ), Fjand ( radar ), Thorsminde, Fjaltring, Bovbjerg ( radar ), Vrist, Thyborøn and north of the Limfjord - Agger ( radar ), Lodbjerg, Stenbjerg ( radar ) and Vorupør.
From the Fl.241 in Thyborøn there were telephonelines to other major marinecenters in Denmark. In the commandroom in this bunker is still visible ( on the north side ) the telephoneboxes in which the reports from the many sites went in."

End of quote.

I dont know if that can be called documentation, but thats the fairly correct translation of the text in the above mentioned book.

Regards
Kurt
kstdk.
Hi Kurt.
This is not what I consider documentation. The author has no reference and MIGHT be guessing. Documentation is an original or copy of an original file. And in my research I have not come across a realy good explanation of this bunker. And there is no help to be found in the organization as we know it in FEB 1945.
Regards
SES

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#104

Post by beaviso » 27 Feb 2004, 13:14

Because of the above discussion about "command" bunker I think it's good time to ask a question on communications.

How were the radar stations linked? With radio links, ground cables, or both? There are known maps showing links between stations. For example in Norway - see: http://home.online.no/~la8ak/k58.htm
Were there any signal amplifying stations? What is a "Richtfunk Verbindung" station?

brgds, M

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#105

Post by beaviso » 27 Feb 2004, 13:27

And another question, I think pretty interesting:

We speak a lot about radars and Himmelbett system. But very little about the Y-Dienst. The Internet isn't very helpful, too.

1. What exactly was a Y-Peiler?
I can think of 3 possible use cases:
- passive: Finding bearing from ground to an enemy aircraft emitting some radiowaves (eg. H2S)
- active: Sending signals helping friendly fighters to "get a fix" on their current position
- mixed: Sending signals plus receiving them (via the fighter interrogating device - transponder) and thus locating fighters

2. Did every station usually have Y-Peilers? How much? I read that they were helpful in case of use of electronic countermeasures (e.g. "Window/Dueppel").

3. How were the Y-stations equipped? There is one Stellung in Poland which for sure had a single W-R.

4. What was the major difference between a Himmelbett station and Y-station? Did Y-stations communicate directly to fighters?

Thank you a lot for any answer.

brgds,M
Last edited by beaviso on 01 Apr 2004, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.

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