Bismarck!

Discussions on the equipment used by the Axis forces, apart from the things covered in the other sections. Hosted by Juha Tompuri
J von B
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 14:40
Location: Sweden

Bismarck!

Post by J von B » 20 Jul 2002 21:40

Grettings!

I'm interested to learn about the battleship Bismarck's anatomy. I would apreciate if someone has tips on books, websites etc. that could be of interest for me. I more or less want copies of the blueprints.

Regards
Johan

Ovidius
Member
Posts: 1414
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 19:04
Location: Romania

Post by Ovidius » 20 Jul 2002 22:05

These two websites:

http://www.bismarck-class.dk

http://www.kbismarck.com

have complete technical descriptions, a rather accurate operational history, and a lot of drawings and photos.

~Regards,

Ovidius

J von B
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 14:40
Location: Sweden

Post by J von B » 20 Jul 2002 23:01

Thanks Ovidius!

I wasn't specific enough in my question, i'm interested in each deck's layout inside the hull and superstructure. I have visited the websites you mentioned before and haven't found any there.

Regards
Johan

User avatar
Richard Murphy
Member
Posts: 751
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 19:24
Location: Bletchley, England

Post by Richard Murphy » 21 Jul 2002 11:09

Is the Bismarck not one of the ships featured in the excellent "Anatomy of the Ship" series?
Sorry, can't remember the Publishers, but remember the Yamato edition being excellently detailed.

Regards from the Park,

Rich

James
Member
Posts: 72
Joined: 13 Mar 2002 02:37
Location: u.s.a.

Post by James » 21 Jul 2002 22:10

As long as we are on the topic of the Bismarck, I have been told that the American Public Broadcasting System is carrying a two hour program this evening on the ship. Apparently the show has two major themes. One is an undersea exploration of the wreck of either the Hood or the Bismarck, with Ted Briggs, one of the three survivors of the Hood, present on the search ship. The second seems to be an examination of whether the Bismarck ltimately went down as a result of the British naval assault or a scuttling of the ship by its crew. It sounds like a new production, though I am not entirely sure of this. (I thought Briggs passed away a couple of years ago.)

Ovidius
Member
Posts: 1414
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 19:04
Location: Romania

Post by Ovidius » 22 Jul 2002 15:06

James wrote: The second seems to be an examination of whether the Bismarck ltimately went down as a result of the British naval assault or a scuttling of the ship by its crew


Apparently both of them. The hull of Bismarck had been built so tough that neither of these factors alone could sink it :D

Actually the pro-Allied guys say it was the assault, the "Revisionists"(aka "Deniers") say it was the scuttling.

Anyway, a "nearly unsinkable" hull + badly protected superstructures doesn't give too much protection for the ship overall;

~Ovidius

User avatar
admfisher
Member
Posts: 645
Joined: 30 Mar 2002 01:38
Location: Toronto

Bismarck

Post by admfisher » 24 Jul 2002 04:17

James Cameron has done another dive on Bismarck gaining much more facts than what the British thought they had.
In Oct. Discovery Channel is to have a program on the dive.

Overall the ship would of sunk irregardless of scuttling or not. She was a well pierced ship when the KGV and Rodney left. To sink her the RN used torpedoes from the Dorchestire.
But in all the latest writings the scuttling seems to have happened.

When there is a story on the Bismarck and Hood done by the British it is usually slanted.
In the Sname group did an article that is allready faulty and they used much of the information on Bismarck from the Hood and Bismarck dives last year.

http://www.sname.org/AM2002/am2002_technical.htm (scroll down and view Paper 5)

IronPirate
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 29 Jun 2002 05:23
Location: Florida,USA

Bismarck

Post by IronPirate » 24 Jul 2002 14:17

The last visit to Bismark proved that the shell and torpedo damage was sufficent to sink her. The firing of scuttling charges only hastened the enevitable. That's not a slur or slant against the Bismarck, her crew or builders. The sheer weight of shells brought against her was insurmountable.

Reichsadler
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: 22 Jul 2002 17:55
Location: Germany

Post by Reichsadler » 24 Jul 2002 14:42

There was a TV documentary on German television two weeks ago where they showed footage of another dive to the Bismarck.

Once again it was stated that the enemy grenades were not able to sink the ship. This is in line with statements of surviving German marine soldiers from the Bismarck who said that the ship was sunk by the crew.

User avatar
admfisher
Member
Posts: 645
Joined: 30 Mar 2002 01:38
Location: Toronto

Re: Bismarck

Post by admfisher » 24 Jul 2002 15:41

IronPirate wrote:The last visit to Bismark proved that the shell and torpedo damage was sufficent to sink her. The firing of scuttling charges only hastened the enevitable. That's not a slur or slant against the Bismarck, her crew or builders. The sheer weight of shells brought against her was insurmountable.


How did the last visit prove anything about the torpedoes? The bottom of the ship is no longer there and what is left of it is buried in mud.

I would like to know where you got the information.
Seeing as thought the only visible torpedo damage on the ship is in the area of the rudders.

The ship had taken over 800 hit of all caliber. Yes she would of sunk on her own if they had not set the scuttling charges, but with the charges being used on the ship, it makes the argument about how the ship was sunk a little more difficult.

James
Member
Posts: 72
Joined: 13 Mar 2002 02:37
Location: u.s.a.

Post by James » 25 Jul 2002 01:21

The conclusion given in the two hour program I mentioned (which appeared to be a British production) was that the torpedo damage from the Dorchester was greater than previously had been thougth and likely was the final cause of the end of the ship. Footage was shown of at least one torpedo hole in the Bismarck's hull caused by the Dorchester and it was suggested that there had been other hits as well. There was very little discussion regarding scuttling other than stating that there were reports from some of the German survivors that the seacocks had been opened. (I do not think there was any reference to explosives having been used.) There was no video shown tending to prove or disprove that any sort of scuttling actually occurred and, if it did, that it delivered the coup de grace.

User avatar
Scott Smith
Member
Posts: 5602
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 21:17
Location: Arizona

Honoring Nazees...

Post by Scott Smith » 25 Jul 2002 01:42

On one PBS program with Ted Ballard, the original one I think, somebody made a memorial cross wound with rope to drop onto the ship from above, as it was a grave for German sailors. Then there was a furor amongst some members of the search ship about honoring Nazi killers, so the memorial wasn't done. I found that rather appalling, in spite of not being a Christian. Maybe the program would not have been aired in Germany if they had done the memorial service. After all, you can still see a swastika on the deck!
:roll:

Image

Caldric
Member
Posts: 8077
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 21:50
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

Post by Caldric » 25 Jul 2002 01:50

She was tough as hell:

During the final battle, the British ships fired more than 2800 shells on Bismarck and the
battleship received at least 400 of them. Also they fired more than 77 torpedoes. At
least 12 (or may be over) of them were succeded to hit the Bismarck. When Bismarck
sank, more than 2200 brave sailors including Admiral Lutjens and commander Ernst
Lindemann died aboard.. Only 115 men were survived.


http://battleshipbismarck.hypermart.net/section-6.htm

After 400 hits and 12 torps I doubt there was that many left to go under with her. Would have been a horrid site.

User avatar
admfisher
Member
Posts: 645
Joined: 30 Mar 2002 01:38
Location: Toronto

Bismarck

Post by admfisher » 25 Jul 2002 04:36

Hello there

This is good.
First the painting done of the Bismarck on the bottom is not accurate, in Oct. you shall see why.

Secound the bottom of the Bismack is torn open front to back and the she settled quite some.

There is the damage to stern area where she took the torpedo that finished her.

The Dorchestire torpedo damage, I am not to sure if one is visible or not at the moment.
It is more than possible that one hit that high on the side of the ships.

In the SNAME paper at this local:
http://www.sname.org/AM2002/am2002_technical.htm
(scroll down and view Paper 5)
You will find a paper made from the results of the Hood Bismarck dive last year. Allready there is some major mistakes that have been found.

Now for an excellant site on this check out Johns work.
The History of Bismarck and Tirpitz:
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/index.html
He was luck enough to dive on the Bismarck this year.

I have a simple chart here:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/admfisher/html ... stats.html
':mrgreen:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
sopas
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 28 Sep 2002 07:37
Location: Spain

Re: Bismarck!

Post by sopas » 12 Oct 2002 09:46

Check the following site:

http://www.kbismarck.com/

For Bismarck books check:

http://www.kbismarck.com/books/

I hope it helps

Return to “Other Equipment”