Moselgerät and Donaugerät (W.P.G for Heeresküstenartillerie)

Discussions on the equipment used by the Axis forces, apart from the things covered in the other sections. Hosted by Juha Tompuri
jopaerya
Member
Posts: 18306
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Post by jopaerya » 29 Mar 2005 15:22

Hello Ses

Very good pictures , according to the papers this must be a Elec-gerät
becauce this version is the only one that had a fotozelle and you can
see the parabolspiegel. Do you know were this W.P.G. was captured ?
The greatest problem is we got now a few pictures and drawing, but its
looks there all different of form and tripod.

Jos

User avatar
SES
Financial supporter
Posts: 3925
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 09:07
Location: 05 ON LT 8

Post by SES » 29 Mar 2005 15:34

Hi Jos,
No I don't know where it was captured or WTH I got the picture from, but isen't it nice we got this thread going and a real expert from down under contributing, but it is irritating that at least in Denmark this area is not very well covered. However we now know that the RN did a survey in Denmark in parallel to the Sea Coast Defence Comission and reports have started to surface so there is hope. Also consider that it was only a few years ago that Marco was able to document the locations at Fanø.
bregds
SES

User avatar
Erik E
Financial supporter
Posts: 4517
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 22:26
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Post by Erik E » 31 Mar 2005 02:08

Deployment of WpG in the Stavanger area has also been a question for quite some time......

I have never seen any German documents listing the 3 places mentioned by Stril (Via http://www.nuav.net), but
these locations could make sense, as they are 3 islands laying infront of the Stavanger/Sola area.

However, what I do know, is that German building lists mention a "SK für WpG" on another island, but "as usual" the SK isn`t there, but something else instead..... :D (Never trust the buildinglists for Norway)
ca 50 Km south of this, a "Donau meßzug" is marked on the German maps.

So far, this makes 4 possible locations for WPG and then this Meßzug..... The Meßzug consist of some 40 men......

On top of this, we got the classic myth which allways follows rare equipment like this.
Just beside a coastal battery located on the mainland behind these 4 islands, some guys from the Norwegian navy
told us the Germans had a test facillity for "Thermal sights". This has never been proved by any documents or maps, but there is enough pieces of information to believe that it can be true.

Anyway, on top of this hill, there are several strange objects...
The first is a row of concrete pylons, leading from a housefoundation and up to the edge of the cliff.
The way they are located makes it quite possible that something could be brought from this house and up to the cliff facing the sea via a track of some kind. These pylons are only 40 cm wide, and the distance between them are too big to carry any heavy equipment.

The second strange object is at first look a foundation for searchlight or 2cm Flak, but again, too small!
There would also be no reason to elevate a seachlight or Flak 70cm, when the hill itself is 60-70 meters high....

Any ideas?
Is this a WpG site ?? :D

Erik E
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
SES
Financial supporter
Posts: 3925
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 09:07
Location: 05 ON LT 8

Post by SES » 31 Mar 2005 08:34

Hi Erik,
The botom picture sure looks convincing, if one compares the picture of the Donau tri-pod and the 3 "paws" with the "hollows" in the 3 columns. The only "concrete" :-) evidence we have in Denmark is at Fanø. Here a central Auswerte Bunker and 3 sub-stations have been found. If your location indeed is a WpG-Stellung there must be similar sites (at least 2) within some kms.
bregds
SES

User avatar
SES
Financial supporter
Posts: 3925
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 09:07
Location: 05 ON LT 8

Post by SES » 31 Mar 2005 08:52

Hi,
Attached a picture of the fire control bunker in 4/HKR 180 at Tyborøn. You could convince me that the "contraption" on top is a Donau. The picture is just post war and we know from Adm Däne KTB that there was a plan for equipping this battery and 9 others in Northern Jutland with WpGs.
bregds
SES
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Jon XLH
Member
Posts: 40
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 09:11
Location: Australia

Post by Jon XLH » 05 Apr 2005 08:52

I’m sold on Erik’s mounts being for a Donau, certainly the right spacing for the stand. The comment about similar devices just on different stands is spot on. Many of my reports are from post war studies and the equipment is certainly German but lashed up to study it. For example a very good American report on the KIEL IV airborne thermal scanner is shown mounted on a standard American survey tripod (not the front of a Me110). And heres a 300mm WpG used by the British to track MTB’s in Dover harbour (post war tests) mounted on a British searchlight base. You have to be very careful with what you are actually looking at. (Note the British radar trailer used to verify the results)

SES, I would lay odds on the device on the command bunker roof as being infrared, probably a receiver and probably for communications/marking. You may be aware that infrared devices were specifically mentioned in the May 1945 surrender documents, here is an extract -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(3) location and details of all naval communications (including Infra-Red) and naval radar training and research establishments.
g. Full details of all German minefields in the NORTH SEA, SKAGGERAK, KATTEGAT, BEITS, and SOUND.
h. Full details of the German naval minesweeping organization including the communications organization.
j. Full details of the communications (including Infra-Red) and radar equipment fitted in all German minesweepers and Sperrbrechers.
k. Technical details of all types of minesweeping gear used by the German Navy.
l. Details of all mining and types of mines employed and of berthing facilities available for ships of 150 feet in length and 16 feet draught at:-
BREMERHAVEN
WILHELMSHAVEN
SCHIERMONNIKOOG
DELFZIJL.
10. The German High Command will also furnish the Allied Naval Commander, Expeditionary Force, with two copies of all coding and cyphering systems which have been, are being, or were to be used by the German Navy with the necessary instructions for their use and the dates between which they have been, or were to have been used.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Donau was for the costal army units, the device named WpG 60 (also called X or Z gerate) was planed to be mounted on sub-casers although not finalised before the end.
Very kind of you SES but I’m no expert on anything just another sad individual with eclectic interests.
Jon.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 18306
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Post by jopaerya » 19 Dec 2006 22:31

Hello

This looks a little bit like the Donau-gerat
of Jon XLH in a post on the first page .

Photo = S.H.M. Paris

Regards Jos
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
SES
Financial supporter
Posts: 3925
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 09:07
Location: 05 ON LT 8

Post by SES » 19 Dec 2006 22:43

Hi Jos,
What a fine fine find and in a gun battery too.
bregds
SES

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 11486
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Post by Juha Tompuri » 29 Dec 2006 23:25

A memory from the past
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ht=#402520

Regards, Juha :)

User avatar
SES
Financial supporter
Posts: 3925
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 09:07
Location: 05 ON LT 8

Post by SES » 29 Dec 2006 23:58


JB XLH
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 04:54
Location: Australia

Post by JB XLH » 30 Dec 2006 14:24

Hi Jos,

Excellent photo of what I believe could be the very instrument I posted.
The Donau in my picture was one of two partly wrecked examples found on the Cherbourg peninsular in an old fort complex overlooking the harbour – I have the details and a map somewhere.
A 200-cm infrared screened searchlight was located nearby but that would have been used with the navy’s Egel or Seehund picture forming tubes. Could you please tell what the origin of photos from S.H.M. Paris is?

Jon

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 18306
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Post by jopaerya » 30 Dec 2006 15:10

Hi Jon XLH

The S.H.M. means Service Historique Marine and is located at
chateaux Vincennes near Paris . The photo is from a report about
the Atlantikwall in France , there is no information about W.P.G. or
radar . I only found this picture with the Donau and a lot of photo's
of bunkers in France .

I am very curieus about your report from Cherbourg about the Donau ,
found in other report the phrase that a Donau-Mess-System was planned
west.Cherbourg in 1944 . So maybe this is the same ???

Regards Jos

JB XLH
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 04:54
Location: Australia

Post by JB XLH » 02 Jan 2007 13:36

Hi Jos,

I should never rely on memory. I have found a report for the infrared screened searchlight (it was 150-cm not 200-cm and there were three in the area). There was a hand drawn map with this report (London PRO) showing the location of the fort and where the searchlight was found in relation to it - which was West of Cherbourg so this is the site mentioned in your report.
I’ll keep digging for the full Donau report which had a larger better hand drawn map…. from memory.

Jon
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

MilHist BT
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 02:02
Location: Fremont, Ca

Night vision equipment used for FlaK batteries

Post by MilHist BT » 14 Jun 2007 19:14

Hi All

Working on an article for FlaK fire control systems and need some help with the differences between Flakrichtgerät 40 and the Nachtsuchtgerät 41.

From what I've been able to find:
Flakrichtgerät 40 was a binocular optical sight with its objective lenses offset 45 degrees upwards for easier air target acquisition and tracking. It's primary purpose was apparently to provide train and elevation orders to searchlights and medium FlaK guns.

Nachsuchtgerät 41 was apparenlty either a similar optical device or incorporated an Infrarot detector, possibly similar to Spanner I? It seems to have been used in heavy FlaK batteries at B I (Befehlstelle I - primary battery control station) in conjunction with the Kommandogerät 36 and Kommandogerät 40 predictors / directors.

Appreciate in advance any help on information or sources to pursue.

dufleuve
New member
Posts: 1
Joined: 31 Jul 2007 18:36
Location: Belgium

Infrared optical part

Post by dufleuve » 31 Jul 2007 18:41

Hello,

Could the attached optic be part of an infrared device ?

Thanks,

[/url]
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Return to “Other Equipment”