Best Battleship

Discussions on the equipment used by the Axis forces, apart from the things covered in the other sections. Hosted by Juha Tompuri
William Wagner
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Post by William Wagner » 10 Oct 2002 23:45

Yes but the Richelu ass was exposed for a beating like none other. Not to mention the french navy has never been one for quality in ships or men. Which they do not need be. It is however pretty cool looking. But a good heavy cruiser or even a light cruiser with torpedoes could sink her from the rear and still survive. This is due in manuverability and usually weak armor in the rear of battleships. However if this is different for this class let me know

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Takao
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Post by Takao » 11 Oct 2002 15:40

For Cheshire Yeomanry:

Only ship vs. ship action for the Iowa Class.

The Iowa and New Jersey engaged 4 Japanese ships(light cruiser Katori, minesweeper trawler Shonan Maru No. 15, destroyer Maikaze, and destroyer Nowaki). The American force(Task Group 50.9) was Iowa, New Jersey, the heavy cruisers Minneapolis & New Orleans, and 4 destroyers. The battle occurred near Truk in February, 1944. The Japanese ships were first sited by a spotting plane from the New Jersey. Before the battleships closed the range, some carrier planes attack the Japanese ships. The carrier planes left the Katori afire and dead in the water.

The New Jersey's portside 5 inch battery made quick work of the Shonan Maru No. 15. The Iowa finished of the Katori with 46 16-inch HC and 124 5-inch shells. While the Iowa was finishing off the Katori, the New Jersey was shelling the Maikaze. During this part of the battle the Iowa narrowly avoided 3 Long-Lance torpedoes. With 3 of the 4 Japanese ships dispatched, both battleships began a stern chase of the remaining destroyer.

Even though the Iowas' were at flank speed, the Nowaki opened the range. The Iowas' began firing at 35,000 yds. but the Nowaki was slowly dissappearing over the horizon. At 38,000 yds. the 16-inchers were under full radar control, however no hits were scored, and firing was ceased when the range opened to 39,000 yds.

During this action, the 16-inch guns encountered a few minor problems. However, the radars had the most problems. The Iowa lost both SG radars after their vacuum tubes had jumped out of their sockets. Another problem that occurred was that the fire control radar was unable to pin-point the fall of the 5-inch shells during the bombardment of the Katori. The shell splashes of the larger 8-inch and 16-inch shells "drowned" out the splashes of the 5-inchers.

The Battle of Surigao Strait, part the Battle of Leyte Gulf, was an action between American and Japanese battleships. However, the American battleships were the more elderly of the American battleships, many being survivors of Pearl Harbor. The American Fast Battleships were off with Halsey's carriers and took no part in any surface action during Leyte Gulf.

Ovidius
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Post by Ovidius » 11 Oct 2002 23:58

I've just found out something amazing..

Pierre Clostermann had claimed that during his trip on Richelieu towards Murmansk, the vessel's crew had fired to a patrolling Ju-88 with the 380mm main guns, fed with AA shells!!!

As we know, the Japs had developed for the Yamato class an 18.1 in AA shell(which didn't work properly and destroyed one of the barrels on Musashi).

Does anyone know more about AA shells used by capital ship main guns?

~Regards,

Ovidius

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David C. Clarke
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Hmm!

Post by David C. Clarke » 12 Oct 2002 02:43

Just a note to Takao. Maikaze was alread damaged before she was sunk, having been hit hard in the Guadalcanal battles. Her sister, Nowaki, made a monkey out of New Jersey's supposedly great fire control system. Not to mention that New Jersey even had a floatplane aloft spotting her fire.
I'd say that a mere destroyer, Nowaki, fairly humbled New Jersey and Iowa in this engagement. (And there are other questions, Nowaki only had a two knot advantage over New Jersey's theoretical top speed.)
As for Natori, Japanese light cruisers were obselete by WWII, with neither the firepower or the speed to do battle with a Battleship.

All Glory to the IJN Destroyer Force!!

Best Regards, David :D

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Takao
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Hey David!

Post by Takao » 15 Oct 2002 13:02

I agree with you. The New Jersey's pitometer was reading 32.5 knots and the battleship's captain was calling for more steam. The chief engineer replied that he had plenty of steam, but nowhere to go with it...The throttles were wide open.

However, your getting your cruisers confused. The Natori was part of the Nagara class, The Katori was the lead ship of her class. The Katori was a training cruiser of limited capabilities...Even more limited then the Nagara class.

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Andy H
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Post by Andy H » 16 Oct 2002 17:50

Takao, many thanks for your reply.

:D Andy from the Shire

William Wagner
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Post by William Wagner » 19 Oct 2002 16:01

Main Guns used for AA.
The Bismark is the first I ever heard of doing it. They had used there main guns in hopes of throwing water high enough up to Knock the Sword fish down. As for main gun AA. What a waste. THey are slower an harder to aim. They take up valuable mag. space. They would only be effective if the enemy aircraft were in a big clump. Why the french even needed it is beyond me.

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Post by Karl da Kraut » 20 Oct 2002 21:49

@ William Wagner

Is there any proof to that story of yours? Sounds rather improbable to me.

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 20 Oct 2002 22:19

I've read the story in Robert D. Ballard's book on the Bismark. It's a true story.

Returning from the attack, two Swordfish flew low over Sheffield, their crews giving the thumbs up sign whilst one signalled ‘hit’. Old Shiny’s crew took off their caps and gave an almighty cheer! Suddenly, some of the crew saw the flashes of Bismark’s main 15 inch guns firing. They thought Bismark must be firing at the Swordfish, but shell splashes a couple of miles away indicated that Sheffield was now the target. With her rudders jammed, Bismark was sailing in circles and for a time was head to head with Sheffield.

http://www.sheffnet.co.uk/features/shinysheff2.asp

I have also read (possibly in my book on the Bismark) that some of the splashes ripped off the canvas on the side of the Swordfishes.

Logan Hartke

William Wagner
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Post by William Wagner » 20 Oct 2002 23:39

Dr Robert Ballards book on the Bismark stated it along with a great naval battles book that I have. It was done during both attacks. Even the one where there were no shadowing cruisers. Torpedo Bomers would skim the water so that they could be more accurate and so the torpedo did not damageor go to deep. At the time they were also getting desperate.

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 20 Oct 2002 23:52

William, do either of your books tell about the fabric thing?

Logan Hartke

William Wagner
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Post by William Wagner » 21 Oct 2002 00:06

Not specifically. It was more or less just a breif statement of what they were doing. Almost a side note. However They did mention that the fabric was the reason it was so hard to shoot them down.

Ovidius
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Post by Ovidius » 29 Oct 2002 10:07

Logan Hartke wrote:The Iowa won in all categories but one (in which the Iowa trailed 1st by half of a point). Also...
An example of this might have to do with Bismarck's protective scheme. It is a well-known fact that some of Bismarck's major communications lines and hydraulic feeds, which were only lightly protected, lay above the level of the main armored deck. This was a very serious design flaw, and one which demonstrably contributed to her being defeated by her British opponents perhaps more quickly than she might have otherwise.


Actually this had been the reason for which the respective site did rate Bismarck as inferior in most categories related to protection.. and it's pretty much possible for this idea to be moot.. because Bismarck had two armored decks: a "main armored deck" with 100mm armor and a "main deck" with 50mm armor.. :wink:

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