german atom bomb?howmuch progress

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Ezboard

german atom bomb?howmuch progress

Post by Ezboard » 29 Sep 2002 19:59

wildboar
Member
Posts: 48
(5/19/01 8:46:13 am)
Reply german atom bomb?howmuch progress
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One of the question often asked is how much progress did nazi germany made in developing atomic bomb.
opinion among experts is highly divided while some say that it was not serious program backed by military,while some say that it was substantial, while just surfing luft46 wedsite i came across following articles on alleged german atom bomb

visi.net/~djohnson/armament/abomb.html

visi.net/~djohnson/armament/abomb-2.html


while the site is about planned german jets in world war ii which remained just on paper but the two links given above has some substantial information regarding german progress in making atom bomb.

dan
Visitor
(5/19/01 1:53:24 pm)
Reply atom
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Try adding Heisenburg to your search.

pdhinkle
Veteran Member
Posts: 396
(5/20/01 12:39:47 am)
Reply german atom bomb?
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A great amount of work went into stopping the heavy water plant in Norway! The shipment went to the bottom as it was leaving Norway, right. That would be at least a 2 year set back for the Nazis.With the all out effort in the US the Germans would not have it by wars end, if the heavy water got thru.
I think we should ask goggi about this one.

Scott Smith
Veteran Member
Posts: 574
(5/20/01 10:00:51 am)
Reply Re: german atom bomb?
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Hi all,

Luft46 is a cool site but the bomb pictured would not work IMHO because the uranium would need to be a sphere for critical mass unless it were highly enriched.

And it would not be much of a cleanup effort either, even if it did "fizzle" a little, except that uranium is a somewhat toxic heavy metal that will burn. The reason that Chernobyl was so bad was because it was a very old reactor and very, very dirty with lots of hideous isotopes like strontium 90.

The key to the German atomic bomb was building sufficient isotope separation plants to enrich fissionable U-235. This was not even attempted because the Germans never put the "project" under military control.

Here is an older thread that might be of some interest, including a few of my posts on the subject:

pub3.ezboard.com/fskalmanforumfrm12.showMessage?topicID=117.topic
:-)

Otto Freischer
Member
Posts: 31
(5/22/01 7:44:00 am)
Reply Re: german atom bomb?
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The problem was that there were three seperate groups working on the project. None of them shared their views or discoveries with the other. Also, when the US dropped the Bomb on Japan, the scientists in Allied captivity were given a newspaper with the headlines. The room was bugged and by their conversations, the Allies were able to deduce that the Germans weren't close at all.


Otto

wildboar
Member
Posts: 51
(5/30/01 1:07:06 pm)
Reply heisenburgs method continued in india after wwii
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hello scott smith,
i always liked your good and informative posts on this board also as usual your post have good analysis.
but i disagree with you that bomb described in luft 46 would not had worked.
nearly same line was followed DR Homi Bhabha(1909-1966) the father of nuclear science in india was specifically asked by jawaharlal nehru then indian prime minister to make n bomb for india also followed heisenburgs method till his death in 1966.
secondly i do not agree with your contention that theoritical scientists are not capable of conducting nuclear programme,in india the whole architect of hydrogen bomb project is also a theoritical physicist.
i also do not agree to your view that involvement of military is neccesary for devloping atom bomb ,the entire indian nuclear weapons program was entirely a civilian task nowhere the militarty is except for delivery.
i also feel that uranium seperation is not all the required for making a-bomb the indian nuclear programme has no uranium seperation on large scale.

what i want to say is that what post war indian nuclear establishment could do the german establishment under heisenburg was surely capable of doing and the bomb described in luft46 would had worked.

Scott Smith
Veteran Member
Posts: 634
(5/30/01 9:28:15 pm)
Reply Re: heisenburgs method continued in india after wwii
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Hello wildboar,

You make some good points. For the bomb to have worked as shown in the Luft46 site the uranium would have had to have been enriched considerably. This would have required isotope separation plants which could have only been constructed in Germany during the war by the military at the highest-possible priority and probably not begun later than early 1942.

I agree that uranium enrichment was not necessary. The Russians used plutonium transmutation for their bomb in 1949 and this is a much cheaper method. For the Germans to have done this in wartime they would have needed to construct many reactors and this program would have been as problematical as isotope separation. The plutonium radiochemistry was also not as far along in Germany.

I agree that theorectical scientists could have done the job but I don't think that Heisenburg was the man. In other words, yes, he was a genius, but I don't feel that his failure to give Germany the bomb was intentional.

A good arrangement, in my opinion, was the one with Dr. Oppenheimer as Director and Gen. Groves as military Commander. I would pick Dr. Paul Hartek and SS-Obergruppenführer Hans Kammler for those roles.

By the way, wildboar, thanks for contributing to the forum and I'm sorry that some have been so insulting. I agree strongly that racist attacks have no place in this forum.

Best Regards,
Scott

pdhinkle
Veteran Member
Posts: 446
(6/2/01 6:32:36 pm)
Reply german atom bomb?
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Now that I have read all this, I,d give the Germans about a 25 to 30 % completion of the project!

schwalbe
Member
Posts: 27
(6/2/01 11:04:19 pm)
Reply Re: german atom bomb?howmuch progress
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Could German Airships have been used to bring the bomb to USA? I forget the name they
called them, but i have heard them called airships before.

Scott Smith
Veteran Member
Posts: 644
(6/3/01 11:41:48 am)
Reply Re: german atom bomb?howmuch progress
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Hi Schwalbe,

I think the dirigible Graf Zeppelin was decommissioned shortly after the war began. Just before the war it was used in a military role as a signals interception platform (spy airship). It easily could have carried an atomic bomb, which was too heavy to be lofted by a standard V-2, assuming the same heavy designs as used by the Americans against Japan in 1945.

But the V-2 could have attacked major American targets on the American eastern seaboard like New York by launching them from a container towed by a U-boat. This would not be more than a symbolic pinprick except with atomic ordnance.

However, there was a long-range German aircraft called the Amerika Bomber that could have done the job on a small scale, i.e., deliver a high-stakes "package." With the element of surprise it might have gotten thorough, as American airspace was lightly defended and not even subject to blackout conditions for the most part.

There was also a multistage German rocket in the works. It could have hit Moscow or the American coastal cities from silos hidden in Germany. I may write an essay about it for the board sometime (if the Greuelpropagandistas ever leave me alone). Oops, did I say that out loud....

Anyway, a Zeppelin would have taken some time to cross the Atlantic and would have been extremely vulnerable once detected. It would have no chance whatsoever of getting through.

Airships are quite economical and can hover a long time, making them useful for naval reconnaissance, assuming friendly aerial supremacy and good weather for the fragile craft. But the Allies had better luck with long-range B-24 bombers in this role.

For naval reconnaissance, the Germans used the long-range Focke-Wulf FW 200, a four-engined former commercial airliner. In the earlier part of the war it was Hitler's Air Force One, bedecked with blazing swastikas. He also had a very elaborate command-train called the Amerika.

In the later part of the war as airraids increased, Hitler seldom left his bunkered headquarters, separated from the people by reinforced concrete and losing touch with reality. His hopes were buoyed by wishful reports that a superbomb was on the way.

Now, of course, stratospheric hypermach aircraft like the SR-71 are used for recon, as well as satellites, which make the skies truly "open," at least for the superpowers that control them. Only nuclear submarines, some of them launch-platforms for nuclear missiles, can escape detection.

Best Regards,
Scott

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