General physics and advanced plasma research 1935-45

Discussions on the equipment used by the Axis forces, apart from the things covered in the other sections. Hosted by Juha Tompuri
Simon Gunson
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#31

Post by Simon Gunson » 24 Oct 2006, 11:42

Ohrdruf there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that Kammler defied Hitler's orders to execute nazi scientists to prevent them falling into the hands of the Soviets.

For example that 450 scientists and engineers were secretly put on a train under SS protection and sent south to Bavaria, where Alsos knew exactly how to find them without a shot fired in anger.

Likewise the Heereswaffenamt A-bomb team under Deibner at Dahlem near Leipzig.

Another thing, Dorneberger and Von Braun went to Lisbon in October 1944 to negotiate the secret surrender of all Nazi scientists with representatives of GEC for the US Government. At the time the Swiss border had been open to the Allied forces for a month.

You can't look at little pockets of WW2 in isolation. You have to study Operation Sunrise for clues and these clues point to Kammler. John Foster Dulles declined to negotiate with Himmler. Yes he did get co-operation from SS General Wolffe, but Wolffe was not influencial enough to arrange a discreet train evacuation from Peenemunde. Kammler with Himmler's help was important enough. Wolffe was put on trial for Nuremberg but the Americans ensured his early release. he knew something and was freed to stop the truth of Sunrise escaping.

Only Kammler was high enough to have overview and control of all top nazi science projects in 1944. What did the US want most desperately ?
Not Himmler, nor to save incarcerated jews as Himmler assumed.

No... USA wanted to get that science for itself and prevent the Soviets getting it.
Kammler was the obvious man.

He disappeared so completely after the war. He also happened to disappear exactly the day Hitler found out about Himmler's betrayal and a Ju-290 made a discreet flight from Prague to Barcelona.

You can't write all this off as unconnected especially when acknowledging how much of the other information on these related topics remains classified. The OSS agent James Jesus Angleton created rat lines with the help of the Vatican and Martin Bormann. These are known facts. Why find Kammler escaping to the west so hard to swallow?

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#32

Post by ohrdruf » 03 Nov 2006, 19:01

Dear Kiwikid

Another contributor to the forum contacted me two years ago in connection with a national archive document indicating that Kammler was captured by US forces in Czechoslovakia in May 1945. I was asked not to reveal other details. I could put you in touch with him if you like. What I would not be prepared to accept is that Kammler fled to the United States with technical knowledge. Obviously in the last months of the war the entire situation was in flux and people disobeyed orders and acted on their own initiative.


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Historical-Truth
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#33

Post by Historical-Truth » 04 Nov 2006, 14:21

ohrdruf wrote:Dear Kiwikid

Another contributor to the forum contacted me two years ago in connection with a national archive document indicating that Kammler was captured by US forces in Czechoslovakia in May 1945. I was asked not to reveal other details. I could put you in touch with him if you like. What I would not be prepared to accept is that Kammler fled to the United States with technical knowledge. Obviously in the last months of the war the entire situation was in flux and people disobeyed orders and acted on their own initiative.
There exist both US and Russian documents as to Kammler being certain places, alive, after the War. He and those special systems under his control at the end of the War were obviously of great importance to both. I have long studied this and am quite sure Kammler did not go to the US as Cook would have us believe, however, most of the projects and scientists and documentation for those projects did! The last weeks - even the last few months of the War were much more complex IMO than standard history usually portrays it. Many were scrambling in Germany to get out or make a 'deal' with the soon-to-be victors. Many of these deals being made were in conflict [more than one person presenting they could deliver something without the knowledge of others doing the same] or penetrated and counter-penetrated. It was a freeforall and very complex. After the War almost everyone had their own reasons to hide what had really happened. There is a new book to come out soon that will make the case that even AH had secret negotiations ongoing that have not been publicly known to date. Sorry, the author won't let me give out more details. Some of this relates to the special weapons systems.

Someone posted a very interesting mention of a Reich warrent for the arrest of Kammler. I'd like that person to post where they heard that and any details, or contact me privately about that.

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#34

Post by ohrdruf » 26 Feb 2007, 17:13

Witcher

I have sent you a PM and invite your reply.

Ohrdruf
26 February

HistorianSr
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#35

Post by HistorianSr » 28 Feb 2007, 20:21

In doing research, I have run across problems because names of relevant agencies change and multiple names of objects being described are used. On the matter of the Foo Fighter, an official document published by the United States Strategic Air Forces in Europe, Office of the Director of Intelligence, and dated 1944, has this entry:


4. "PHOO" BOMBS: Occasionally reports by pilots and the testimony of prisoners of war and escapees describe this weapon as a radio-controlled, jet-propelled, still-nosed, short-range, high performance ramming weapon, for use against bombing formations. It's speed is estimated at 525 mph


HSr

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#36

Post by witcher » 01 Mar 2007, 04:30

"4. "PHOO" BOMBS: Occasionally reports by pilots and the testimony of prisoners of war and escapees describe this weapon as a radio-controlled, jet-propelled, still-nosed, short-range, high performance ramming weapon, for use against bombing formations. It's speed is estimated at 525 mph "
The Allies had learned by 1944-5 how to jam any type of radio control. ie Fritz X (FX1400) glide bomb and the Hs 293 radio/wire guided rocket. Being required to use wire guidance made the control aircraft more vulnerable. It is possible the "phoo" bombs were unguided and then switched to IR when in range. It is a mystery.
Bruce

HistorianSr
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#37

Post by HistorianSr » 01 Mar 2007, 19:46

What is more unusual is not doing research and assuming something did not exist. Eyewitness reports published in the American Legion magazine were similarly dismissed.



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PPoS
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#38

Post by PPoS » 09 Mar 2007, 17:53

Yes, I actually sent pictures of this specific document "German Capabilities in 1944-45" to a member on this forum. These so-called "Phoo-Bombs" are pretty interesting since they have a striking resemblance to the name "Foo" and seems to have the same capabilities. There are reports (or more likely rumours) about "Foo Fighters" that looked like a smaller model of the Messerschmitt Me 163, maybe it's the same thing ? If we just could drop all this "wild" stories about anti-gravity engines and stuff, I suppose we have found something that could be the answer to the "Foo Fighter" mystery.

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#39

Post by ohrdruf » 13 Mar 2007, 17:08

PPoS

There is a declassified document from the US archive which describes the use of a small aircraft resembling an Me 163 being used to bring down a flight of bombers. I will quote the document if requested.

"Anti-gravity machine" is merely a term applied to an aircraft built here but which has the propensity to operate in another magnetic field. The area of research of the major German AEG project was into the "separation of magnetic fields".

The foo-fighter was a remote-controlled aircraft within an artificially created plasmoid. The plasmoid occupies another magnetic field created with the Earth's magnetic field. Within the plasmoid the aircraft was invulnerable and invisible to radar, but the electronics functioned perfectly and it was able to "latch on" to an aircraft, probably the radar emissions, and imitate its movements for periods of up to twenty minutes. Foo-fighters must have been purely experimental for they had no clear offensive purpose. They were reported as "tremendously hot" if an aircraft approached too closely, this would indicate heat build-up inside the plasmoid from which of course gases and the heat from machinery could not escape into the atmosphere of the Earth's magnetic field.

The Germans appeared to have created a plasmoid which had permanency until such time as they decided to dissolve it. No such plasmoid is known to modern science. The claim is made that the theory was based on "quantum physics and SS-Earth Sciences including the Vril" and so one has to make of that what one will.

In nature such plasmoids have been known to exist for up to thirty minutes and are "anti-gravity" in that they can pass through plate glass windows, indicating that they operate in another magnetic/gravity field. Details were given earlier in this thread of the progress made by American technology towards creating a plasmoid of this nature, their efforts to date have brought forth a plasmoid with a lifetime of 200 milliseconds, the blink of an eye.

It seems certain that the technology was brought to Argentina at the end of the war, and that further experimentation was continued at Huemul. The AEG senior engineer Herbert Hellmann who worked on the main AEG project in Silesia throughout the war was in charge of the AEG work at Huemul in Argentina and lied about where he had spent the period 1938-1945.

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LWD
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#40

Post by LWD » 13 Mar 2007, 20:05

ohrdruf wrote:PPoS

There is a declassified document from the US archive which describes the use of a small aircraft resembling an Me 163 being used to bring down a flight of bombers. I will quote the document if requested.
{please do
"Anti-gravity machine" is merely a term applied to an aircraft built here but which has the propensity to operate in another magnetic field. The area of research of the major German AEG project was into the "separation of magnetic fields".
Exactly what does this mean?
The foo-fighter was a remote-controlled aircraft within an artificially created plasmoid. The plasmoid occupies another magnetic field created with the Earth's magnetic field.
PLS define what you mean by a "plasmoid".
Within the plasmoid the aircraft was invulnerable and invisible to radar,
Why would this be so?
...
In nature such plasmoids have been known to exist for up to thirty minutes and are "anti-gravity" in that they can pass through plate glass windows, indicating that they operate in another magnetic/gravity field.
??? anti gravity = ability to pass through plate glass windows = operate in another magnetic/gravity field ??? Sounds like string so pseudo scientific gibberish to me. Care to put it in meaningful terms?

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#41

Post by ohrdruf » 14 Mar 2007, 14:45

LWD

I will post the article. I am ever so sorry, no offence intended, but if you actually do need to ask the questions you put, for example, if you do not have knowledge of the scientific term "plasmoid", or you do not understand ball lightning, and it all seems gibberish to you, then you will not be able to follow the answer.

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LWD
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#42

Post by LWD » 14 Mar 2007, 15:33

I asked because I wanted to make sure I understood how you were using the term or really to see if you understood. Much of what is said above seams to be gibberish.

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T. A. Gardner
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#43

Post by T. A. Gardner » 15 Mar 2007, 06:53

Adding to that: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

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#44

Post by HistorianSr » 15 Mar 2007, 17:39

The claims are not extraordinary. Ordinary proof will do. A careful reading of B.I.O.S. Reports from the immediate post-war period yields proof by individuals who were qualified to assess what they found.


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PPoS
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#45

Post by PPoS » 18 Mar 2007, 17:13

ohrdruf wrote:PPoS

There is a declassified document from the US archive which describes the use of a small aircraft resembling an Me 163 being used to bring down a flight of bombers. I will quote the document if requested.
Yes, I would be very happy if you could. It would help my research alot !

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