Third Reich signatures.

Discussions on Axis documents, postcards, posters and other paper items as well as feldpost numbers.
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Alexandra W
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Alexandra W » 21 Apr 2017 12:32

Ian Sayer wrote:I agree with Hucks Alex. Signed photos and documents from this period can be worth a lot of money depending on various factors so it is an area which is attractive to forgers. People who have been collecting for a long time are not infallible but I think in this field some of the 'old hands' would be more competent than 'experts' from the major auction houses. Sometimes people rely on certificates of authentication which , in my opinion, are usually worthless. Other people rely on buying from auction houses of long standing but it is often the case that the auction 'expert' has very little experience of the signatures they are certifying. If you buy on E Bay or similar the old adage of 'buyer beware' must always prevail. I think it is possible to find the odd 'bargain' on Ebay but you would have to be very very lucky. It is , as far as I can see, a forger's paradise. Everybody has to start somewhere but you should be extra careful as you build up experience. It is a very engaging hobby but you have to learn from your mistakes. I have! Third Reich magazines and newspapers could be an interesting area. You are unlikely to find many forgeries , if any, for two reasons. From a forger's point of view it is not worth it and secondly any forger would probably have to use paper stock produced after the war which is quite easy to determine with ultra violet torches. Hope that helps and good luck Alex.


Hi Ian,

Thank you so much for your great advice! Lucky for me that I have such a narrow interest that there's probably no reasons for me to buy another signed photo.
Apart from the signature issues they are nice photos that I've never seen before, though expensive. I thought I could trust a guy in his eighties with huge lot of photos, letters and documents but it turns out that I was wrong...
Btw, just curious, does anyone forge personal letters?

Regards,
Alex

Ian Sayer
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Ian Sayer » 21 Apr 2017 12:43

Alex
He may not have realised that the items he sold you were, shall we say, questionable.
And yes people forge personal letters and just about anything else you can think of if it's worth it!
Regards
Ian

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hucks216
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby hucks216 » 21 Apr 2017 12:45

Alexandra W wrote:... Maybe I should just go collecting old Third Reich newspapers and magazines. At least they cannot be forgeries, or can they?

Regards,
Alex


The thing with collecting Third Reich items is that there is literally no end to the things people collect. Collecting paperwork, you have collectors of citations, Soldbücher, Wehrpasse, photo albums and so on - the list is a long one. Then someone might only collect for a specific unit, location (maybe their home town), battle or time frame be that early war or late.
As you say, collecting magazines is another and they can be found for very reasonable amounts, or you could concentrate on something like travel papers that were issued to troops. Not only is that another cheap area to collect (and largely left alone by the fakers) but sometimes you can get something like a leave slip signed by the Kompanie-Chef or Regiment-Kdr who just happens to be a Knights Cross holder and the chances are that the seller won't know that little detail so the price could be a bargain especially compared to something like a signed photo or citation. Take this Urlaubschein for example. Signed by the commander of Pz.Jäger-Abt 181 (Major Wolfgang Ziemer) who just happens to of won the DKiG.
But it is important to build up a library of books to help you determine such things.

signed by Major Wolfgang Ziemer (DKiG 09 Oct 1944).jpg
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Alexandra W
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Alexandra W » 21 Apr 2017 13:02

Ian Sayer wrote:Alex
He may not have realised that the items he sold you were, shall we say, questionable.
And yes people forge personal letters and just about anything else you can think of if it's worth it!
Regards
Ian


Hi Ian,

Thanks! Another major area to avoid!
Just curious, do they copy words from existing letters or just made them up? Just think of the latter would make me laugh: a forger sitting in front of a desk trying so desperately to make up some nonsense people would always write in their letters while wishing he or she could have paid more attention to writing courses, lol :D

Regards,
Alex

Ian Sayer
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Ian Sayer » 21 Apr 2017 13:12

They copy them usually. Like Konrad Kujaud did when he forged the Hitler Diaries.

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Alexandra W
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Alexandra W » 21 Apr 2017 13:26

hucks216 wrote:
Alexandra W wrote:... Maybe I should just go collecting old Third Reich newspapers and magazines. At least they cannot be forgeries, or can they?

Regards,
Alex


The thing with collecting Third Reich items is that there is literally no end to the things people collect. Collecting paperwork, you have collectors of citations, Soldbücher, Wehrpasse, photo albums and so on - the list is a long one. Then someone might only collect for a specific unit, location (maybe their home town), battle or time frame be that early war or late.
As you say, collecting magazines is another and they can be found for very reasonable amounts, or you could concentrate on something like travel papers that were issued to troops. Not only is that another cheap area to collect (and largely left alone by the fakers) but sometimes you can get something like a leave slip signed by the Kompanie-Chef or Regiment-Kdr who just happens to be a Knights Cross holder and the chances are that the seller won't know that little detail so the price could be a bargain especially compared to something like a signed photo or citation. Take this Urlaubschein for example. Signed by the commander of Pz.Jäger-Abt 181 (Major Wolfgang Ziemer) who just happens to of won the DKiG.
But it is important to build up a library of books to help you determine such things.

signed by Major Wolfgang Ziemer (DKiG 09 Oct 1944).jpg


Thanks for the advice Hucks! The thing you posted is cool!
However having a narrow range of interest on only few certain people means that it is not always easy to find cheap and genuine items to collect( can't believe that I paid $95 for a piece of Berliner Illustrirte Zeitung just for the cover photo :? ).
Another problem as you mentioned is that it requires quite a lot specific knowledges, which is sadly what I lack.

Regards,
Alex

Ian Sayer
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Ian Sayer » 21 Apr 2017 13:45

If you have the patience and the enthusiasm you will gain specific knowledge!

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hucks216
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby hucks216 » 21 Apr 2017 14:03

Alexandra W wrote:
Thanks for the advice Hucks! The thing you posted is cool!
However having a narrow range of interest on only few certain people means that it is not always easy to find cheap and genuine items to collect( can't believe that I paid $95 for a piece of Berliner Illustrirte Zeitung just for the cover photo :? ).
Another problem as you mentioned is that it requires quite a lot specific knowledges, which is sadly what I lack.

Regards,
Alex


Things such as travel papers are very cheap, especially compared to other areas of collecting. Leave passes, rail travel permits, special leave permits, overnight (or day) leave permits, requests to take leave etc can all be found for 20 Euros. There is even a good book on the subject matter (German Military Travel Papers Of The Second World War by Matt DiPalma (ISBN: 9780764350863)) which is reasonably priced.
As Ian says, if you have the patience and are interested in the hobby then you will gain experience with time. After all, you paid 95 Euros for a magazine just for a front cover so why not buy a few books instead to help you in your collecting quest? Building up a library is an important aspect of collecting as not everything is on the net and having that gained knowledge to hand and in your head can pay dividends when you stumble across something at a flea market where you don't have the ability to post asking for opinions or waiting for someone to take time out of their day to reply.

Ian Sayer
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Ian Sayer » 21 Apr 2017 14:47

Quite right Hucks!

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Alexandra W
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Alexandra W » 21 Apr 2017 17:21

hucks216 wrote:
Alexandra W wrote:
Thanks for the advice Hucks! The thing you posted is cool!
However having a narrow range of interest on only few certain people means that it is not always easy to find cheap and genuine items to collect( can't believe that I paid $95 for a piece of Berliner Illustrirte Zeitung just for the cover photo :? ).
Another problem as you mentioned is that it requires quite a lot specific knowledges, which is sadly what I lack.

Regards,
Alex


Things such as travel papers are very cheap, especially compared to other areas of collecting. Leave passes, rail travel permits, special leave permits, overnight (or day) leave permits, requests to take leave etc can all be found for 20 Euros. There is even a good book on the subject matter (German Military Travel Papers Of The Second World War by Matt DiPalma (ISBN: 9780764350863)) which is reasonably priced.
As Ian says, if you have the patience and are interested in the hobby then you will gain experience with time. After all, you paid 95 Euros for a magazine just for a front cover so why not buy a few books instead to help you in your collecting quest? Building up a library is an important aspect of collecting as not everything is on the net and having that gained knowledge to hand and in your head can pay dividends when you stumble across something at a flea market where you don't have the ability to post asking for opinions or waiting for someone to take time out of their day to reply.


Thanks for your advice and recommendation of the book, Hucks. Just ordered one.

Regards,
Alex

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Alexandra W
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Alexandra W » 07 May 2017 02:46

So here's a signature of Baumbach in his 30s. Not quite like his previous ones......

Image

einwehrmann2
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Marseille's signature?

Postby einwehrmann2 » 25 May 2017 20:34

Can anybody tell me if, in their opinion, if this is Hans-Joachim's Signature? Thanks in advance for your help.
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einwehrmann2
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby einwehrmann2 » 26 May 2017 22:27

CLICK THE POSTCARD TWICE, AND GET GETS MUCH LARGER.

Ian Sayer
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Ian Sayer » 27 May 2017 08:32

The photo is till small even when you enlarge it. Too difficult to say really but on balance it looks like a forgery.

Nicolas7507
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Re: Third Reich signatures.

Postby Nicolas7507 » 27 May 2017 08:40

Honestly, I wouldnt touch any Marseille....Some will disagree.....


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