How to tell if photograph are genuine - based on the paper

Discussions on Axis documents, postcards, posters and other paper items as well as feldpost numbers.
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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender » 01 Nov 2004 06:31

David, I never said that what I say has more value than what you say!! I would never say this. It is an respectless imputation I don´t like.
Beside being a moderator (which is secondary here) I am a human being and I have the right to dislike your "teacher" attitude towards me and herewith this will be my last contact with you.

\Christoph

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Tracer
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Post by Tracer » 01 Nov 2004 08:13

Yowch..

Personally? (and no one asked...but I'll say it anyway) ;)

Any items I collect for my personal collection.. I plan on donating to museums that want them upon my death. I don't have children.. and don't plan on having them so.. inheritance grudges won't be a factor.

just my 2 cents.

-T

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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender » 01 Nov 2004 08:34

Tracer wrote:Yowch..

Personally? (and no one asked...but I'll say it anyway) ;)

Any items I collect for my personal collection.. I plan on donating to museums that want them upon my death. I don't have children.. and don't plan on having them so.. inheritance grudges won't be a factor.

just my 2 cents.

-T
Honestly I never thought (probably because I am still quite young) about what to do with my collection after my death. As we heard before mysteron considers himself moraly superior than others because he gives his collection to museums. I don´t agree with that because why should I give all documents, photos etc... which cost me thousands of Euros (time, fuel, prices, copies, archive fees, coffee, wine for the veterans etc...) to a museum. I am doing enough good deeds in my profession and I am no millionaire to donate thounsands of Euros. I am 100% sure that significantly more people see these informations on my site than in any Austrian museum. I work with this collection and if I would give it away to a museum this information would be lost for me as reference. The main purpose of my collection is to learn about WW2... and this is just possible if you see as much original material as possible. Giving it away to a museum makes no sense for me. Probably other members are the same oppinion as mysteron that I am immorale but again I see no sense in giving away material I collected in many years.

\Christoph

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 01 Nov 2004 09:11

David
Since you for some reason object to people placing marks of various kinds on photographs, does this mena that you'd prefer that I, and most likely other collectors as well, keep our photographs to ourselves (which is the alternative)?

You are the one being selfish here.

In case someone wish to see a more detailed view of any of my photographs, I consider this on a case-to-case basis.

You say that you donate your memorabilia to museums, however placing these items on the Internet and lending high-resolution scans to publishers means that the whole world have access - not just local visitors. How, then, is your method better than Christoph's and mine?

What will happen to my photographs specifically after I die (which shouldn't be a at least a handful of decades to come) I am yet to determine, however I do plan on passing them on to a non-profit historical organization of some sort.

Christian

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Mysteron
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Post by Mysteron » 01 Nov 2004 14:35

Tracer wrote:Yowch..

Personally? (and no one asked...but I'll say it anyway) ;)

Any items I collect for my personal collection.. I plan on donating to museums that want them upon my death. I don't have children.. and don't plan on having them so.. inheritance grudges won't be a factor.

just my 2 cents.

-T
Great idea Tracer. Good for you! :)

And thanks for not being so reactionary and judgemental as the following two posters (Christoph and Christian) seem to be...tossing insults my way and generally being (as my fiance put it) childish.

Best Regards,
David (Mysteron)

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Mysteron
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Post by Mysteron » 01 Nov 2004 15:01


[...]As we heard before mysteron considers himself moraly superior than others because he gives his collection to museums. [...] Probably other members are the same oppinion as mysteron that I am immorale but again I see no sense in giving away material I collected in many years.

\Christoph
Interesting that I did not say either of the two things that I am accused of saying.
I never said I consider myself "morally superior" (quote corrected for spelling) to others.
Nor did I say I give my collection to museums.
I did say, "If I ever obtained anything of genuine historical value it would go right to a museum, like our Wartime Heritage Museum in Ottawa", and I meant it.

Christoph says in an earlier post:
[...] herewith this will be my last contact with you
\Christoph
Apparently this does not include taking personal shots at me in other posts...something I have not done to him (except for my comment that tossing insults my way was childish...because it is!).

It's sad when one cannot post an opinion without being shot down and insulted, but sadly it seems more and more common for the younger generation to behave this way online these days.

Mysteron

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Mysteron
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Post by Mysteron » 01 Nov 2004 15:35

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:David
Since you for some reason object to people placing marks of various kinds on photographs, does this mena that you'd prefer that I, and most likely other collectors as well, keep our photographs to ourselves (which is the alternative)?

You are the one being selfish here.

In case someone wish to see a more detailed view of any of my photographs, I consider this on a case-to-case basis.

You say that you donate your memorabilia to museums, however placing these items on the Internet and lending high-resolution scans to publishers means that the whole world have access - not just local visitors. How, then, is your method better than Christoph's and mine?

What will happen to my photographs specifically after I die (which shouldn't be a at least a handful of decades to come) I am yet to determine, however I do plan on passing them on to a non-profit historical organization of some sort.

Christian
Misquoted and insulted once again. :roll:

Why not keep high-resolution scans for your website, and donate the originals to a Museum where they can be seen by many people (especially elderly Vets) who do not have access to the Internet?
You seem to think the whole world is online. This is not the case, although it would be nice if it was true.
You might also note that Museums regularily share certain collections with other Museums in the world. I know this from being a member of the Royal Ontario Museum, and seeing some great exhibits that were loaned from British Museums. Even Museums as far off as China have sent exhibits our way.

It's my personal opinion that hoarding war mementos is most often done so that the owner can feel he has something nobody else has. Only a very small number of such collectors post images of their collections online. Same goes for art collectors.

I recently broke off contact with a "friend" who I found out was planning a trip to Germany with his metal detector to the Halbe forest area, where thousands of German soldiers still lie buried in hastily-made wartime graves...along with their equiptment (much prized by collectors). I considered this grave-robbing, and told him so. He will also be in for a nasty surprise if the local authorities catch him digging in the Halbe forest. A expensive fine or jail time at the least...if he is lucky! If he is not so lucky he will strike a live mine, or artillery shell...which I sincerely hope does not happen, much as he may deserve to be punished I would not wish that on anyone. :(

Now, let's let this topic drop shall we? There are much more interesting things to discuss and I find it tedious to have to keep defending myself from insults from those who put profit, or private collecting of our collective history over sharing it with others or returning it to where it belongs.
If this makes some consider me to think myself "morally superior", so be it. I stated my opinion on a general topic. I did not toss about misquotes and insults. I wish others would refrain from doing the same.

David (Mysteron)

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 01 Nov 2004 16:05

I could keep the high-resolution photograph on my website, however it would cost me $100-$200 a month, if not more. I can't afford this, but if someone else can then fine?

In addition, to the best of my knowledge, few people in the western world do not have access to the Internet if they really wish to. Most public libraries have Internet access freely available, not to mention the many Internet cafes that are almost everywhere.

As for museums having the photographs, what makes you believe that the photos will not drown in the masses? Consider Musseé des Blindes in Saumur - they have, for example, a Flakpanzer 38 in their storage facility, however they do not allow anyone to come near it - they even forbid photographers from taking pictures of it. Is this a better solution? Furhtermore, many museums charge high prices to make reproductions from their collections, which prevents people from seing the photographs.

I agree with you that grave robbing is wrong, however if it is done properly (where any bodies found are reported, so that the families can finally have closure), I don't mind it as much. This is, unfortunately, rarely the case.
I feel equally bad about people who split up photo albums for profit - this is why I attempt to keep photo groups and albums together, as far as my financial situation allows it. I have, however some photo groups where I couldn't afford to buy all the photos, which had been split up and sold independantly.

In closing, I find it strange that you are surprised when people, who spend both a lot of time and money to publish their photographs, are criticized, they react strongly.

Christian

accrazeee
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photo or postcard?

Post by accrazeee » 11 Nov 2004 19:08

Hi
I recently bought a few photo's that look like postcards.
Maybe it's a stupid question but if they have lines on the back (like a regular postcard) is it then a postcard that has been printed a lot of times?
I don't know, maybe they sometimes printed photo's on postcard-paper.
They do have a Jungvolk/HJ stamp on the back thought...

Thanks

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 11 Nov 2004 20:29

Two types of post cards existed
  • Mass-produced, professional photographs
  • Private photographs, made in only one or a very limited number of copies
It can be difficult to tell the two apart, but a good rule will be to look for manufacturer marks. As with todays postcards, professional postcards will have the name of the printing company or pulisher, and will often also have a brief description of the photograph.
Of course, there can be private photographs with printer 'advertisements', and likewise professional postcards without such information can be ruled out.

You can also look at the motive. If the postcard shows a soldier, where the soldiers identity is the main focus (rather than the fact that it us a soldier, or a piece of equipment), it is most likely a private photograph.

Christian

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Ransome
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Post by Ransome » 14 Nov 2004 19:18

Hello

Usually, before '50s, postcard sized private photos where printed on photo paper whith the back like postcards. In this way they could be sent by mail just as a common postcard.

It is very usual to find unique, private photos with the back like postcards. Sometime they have stamps and were sent too. It is possible to identify commercial postcards because these generally had the editor name, the title and a serial number printed anywhere.

Bye

Marco

aussie jason
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Post by aussie jason » 15 Nov 2004 15:59

Here are some examples of a few of the different manufacturer marks used on the back of period photographs.

Note: both Agfa Lupex & Agfa Brovira came in plane, underlined and double underlined varieties depending on the grade of paper.
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aussie jason
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Post by aussie jason » 15 Nov 2004 16:07

more
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Battler
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Post by Battler » 22 Nov 2004 10:55

If there is no logo on the back, what does it mean ? :)

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 22 Nov 2004 12:46

It might not mean anything, as some photos were printed on whatever paper was available (it is perfectly possible to develop film in the field, but professional photo paper wouldn't be first priority in supplies).

Christian

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