Dunkirk

Discussions on WW2 and pre-WW2 related movies, games, military art and other fiction.
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Sheldrake
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Re: Dunkirk

Postby Sheldrake » 28 Aug 2017 13:27

Dunkirk is an interesting film. Its a striking piece of cinema - a full hour using the techniques of Saving Private Ryan. All claimed to be based on historic images and using physical props and no CGI. In one sense its based on truth - but a rather distorted version of events.

The British Army in particular is given a weird treatment. It isn't shown as an army, but a mob of individuals. No regimental badges. The only Regiment mentioned is the Grenadier Guards - and then only to tell the protagonist that this was a private queue. No one in charge. Only two officers are portrayed. One: a subaltern is a coward and murderer whose actions are forgiven as "shell shock." The other a Colonel is a foil for Kenneth Branagh's observations about the evacuations - but takes no action himself. The only competent authority figure is a lance corporal in charge of the pier of trucks.

(In reality this was a job for the Engineers of 1st Division, supervised by the CRE who sat on a deck chair on the promenade manning one of a row of Bren gun taken from evacuated units and mounted in the rail for anyone who wanted to shoot at German aircraft. The REs also manned the boats that ferried troops from the shore to ships.

No one is shown making any hostile action against the enemy - other than ineffectual rifle fire at Stukas. there is a 40mm Bofors gun on the end of the pier, but it doesn't fire any more than the ships AA guns do.

The British Army portrayed by Christopher Nolan is a version of the British Army familiar to the British public. Its the Help for Heroes army. An army of victims. Britons in Uniform whose main activity is self preservation, their military virtues of discipline showed by queuing as if for Border Control.
Last edited by Sheldrake on 28 Aug 2017 20:41, edited 1 time in total.

avata
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Re: Dunkirk

Postby avata » 14 Nov 2017 10:17

I would not watch this movie a second time. You can see in the film a beautiful shooting, but there is no plot

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Re: Dunkirk

Postby karlsh » 14 Nov 2017 19:26

After watching this movie by Christopher Nolan I was impressed with all the detail and work put into the movie. Like Avata said, not a movie I would watch the second time around. But it was great in the theaters on a big screen.

I also thought, since Christopher Nolan is British and made a big screen movie about British troops on Dunkirk, I would cast a vote and even shout out to James Cameron who is Canadian, and could tell a great story about Canadian troops in WWI, most notably, The Dieppe Raid.

Taken from Veterans Affairs Canada Website (http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembran ... ieppe-raid):

"The Dieppe Raid was launched on August 19, 1942, and would prove to be the bloodiest single day for Canada’s military in the entire Second World War. Of the almost 5,000 Canadian soldiers who took part in this ill-fated raid on occupied France, more than half became casualties. Sadly, a total of 916 Canadians would lose their lives.

This year marks the 75th anniversary of the Dieppe Raid. The service and sacrifice of Canadians who fought there will never be forgotten."

avata
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Re: Dunkirk

Postby avata » 15 Nov 2017 10:08

I totally agree with you, karlsh. it was great in the theaters on a big screen!
BUT! If you look at the list of similar films, many movies are much better. And Dunkirk is a film show, no more.
https://bestsimilar.com/movies/38320-dunkirk
Christopher Nolan did what he used to do. He made a film with beautiful special effects

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JackSenior
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Re: Dunkirk

Postby JackSenior » 21 Nov 2017 10:13

I really don't care about the plot or lacking character development. There are no protagonists cause the audience have to experience being there themselves.
I bet this is the right thing to do. I just want to play, but I don't know where to get au vogueplay slots. I need all possible bonuses. Promotion would be great to get too.

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Re: Dunkirk

Postby tracy18 » 22 Nov 2017 11:26

Nolan's Dunkirk is nothing short of a masterpiece. The story of Dunkirk evacuation told from three different narratives keeps you invested in the plot throughout. But one small problem that I had with Dunkirk was it didn't give French soldiers enough credit in stalling the German army. Also, the movie doesn't take into account that there were thousands of soldiers from British-Indian colonization who fought for Britain during World War 2.

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Sauerteig
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Re: Dunkirk

Postby Sauerteig » 05 Jan 2018 05:48

I have to agree with the previous poster re sparse aircraft.

I wanted to ask if anyone could answer a couple of points. First, the film shows stukas deliberately attacking a ship conspicuously marked with red cross flags and emblems. Does anyone know if this actually happened.

Second, the film references a ship sunk by a uboat. As far as I know, uboat action in the channel was a no-no, because it was too shallow and because RN destroyers and torpedo boats. Can anyone verify this happened? Thanks.

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Sheldrake
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Re: Dunkirk

Postby Sheldrake » 05 Jan 2018 10:23

Sauerteig wrote:I have to agree with the previous poster re sparse aircraft.

I wanted to ask if anyone could answer a couple of points. First, the film shows stukas deliberately attacking a ship conspicuously marked with red cross flags and emblems. Does anyone know if this actually happened.

Second, the film references a ship sunk by a uboat. As far as I know, uboat action in the channel was a no-no, because it was too shallow and because RN destroyers and torpedo boats. Can anyone verify this happened? Thanks.


Th individual incidents in "Dunkirk" are all supposedly based on true events.

On 219th May HMS Grafton was sunk by a U Boat https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/328.html

On 2nd June 1940 HM Hospital Ship Paris was bombed and sunk of Dunkirk. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peoples ... 9683.shtml

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Sauerteig
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Re: Dunkirk

Postby Sauerteig » 05 Jan 2018 16:07

Wow--both are surprising to me. Thanks.

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Re: Dunkirk

Postby histan » 07 Jan 2018 20:39

Just watched "Dunkirk" at a showing that included a Dunkirk veteran (told he was aged 95).

One comment he made was that the beaches were much more crowded that in the film - thousands of people crammed onto the beach in reality.

His story was simpler and involved an officer! Traveled by 3 tonner, originally trying for Ostende but directed into Dunkirk by an MP. Bought food from a French farmer. After a night on the beach obtained tea from a Guards unit. This was a bit more like the incident in the film - they asked if the could have some tea but were told "We are the Guards", to which his officer replied "Who do you think we are? The Boy Scouts!" after which tea was provided. They found a rowing boat with only five out of the six oars - told by a naval officer - "One of you will have to use his rifle" {People with him had retained their personal weapon unlike in the film]. Rowed out to a ship anchored offshore and then taken back to the UK, Dover [I think] and then Tidworth he said. I think this is a more accurate portrayal of the Army than that shown in the film.

Not sure about the bombing accuracy as shown in the film - as with most air forces at the time the Luftwaffe's bombing accuracy was poor - yes some bombs hit but most missed.

I guess the film did illustrate the saying - "The job of the Air Force is to protect the Navy as it evacuates the Army"

Regards

John

Paul Lakowski
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Re: Dunkirk

Postby Paul Lakowski » 07 Jan 2018 21:55

I really liked the movie with great combination of musical score and imagery. I did wonder about the bombing accuracy but down really low - with no return fire it would have been better than most stats suggest.

Did show shattered moral of Brits and made me wonder if they really could have stood up to invasion.

My parents always insisted they could not.

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Re: Dunkirk

Postby OpanaPointer » 07 Jan 2018 22:25

Fun fact: After Dunkirk the US sent one half million Lee-Enfields to the Brits. Public opinion swung progressively to the Allied side after Dunkirk. By November, 1941, it was in the 70%. Twice in 1941 FDR's cabinet was unanimous in their belief that Roosevelt could get a declaration of war against Japan if they attacked British-Dutch possessions in the Far East even if US territory was not attacked.

So, wars are not won by retreats, but the war for public opinion in the US certainly.
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Paul Lakowski
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Re: Dunkirk

Postby Paul Lakowski » 08 Jan 2018 01:36

OpanaPointer wrote:Fun fact: After Dunkirk the US sent one half million Lee-Enfields to the Brits. Public opinion swung progressively to the Allied side after Dunkirk. By November, 1941, it was in the 70%. Twice in 1941 FDR's cabinet was unanimous in their belief that Roosevelt could get a declaration of war against Japan if they attacked British-Dutch possessions in the Far East even if US territory was not attacked.

So, wars are not won by retreats, but the war for public opinion in the US certainly.



to me this is why Churchill's efforts to get America behind BoB were so critical to the war effort.

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Re: Dunkirk

Postby OpanaPointer » 08 Jan 2018 04:37

Paul Lakowski wrote:
OpanaPointer wrote:Fun fact: After Dunkirk the US sent one half million Lee-Enfields to the Brits. Public opinion swung progressively to the Allied side after Dunkirk. By November, 1941, it was in the 70%. Twice in 1941 FDR's cabinet was unanimous in their belief that Roosevelt could get a declaration of war against Japan if they attacked British-Dutch possessions in the Far East even if US territory was not attacked.

So, wars are not won by retreats, but the war for public opinion in the US certainly.



to me this is why Churchill's efforts to get America behind BoB were so critical to the war effort.

It wasn't going to be hard. We considered the British as the "guys who were actually doing something." After June 1941 we considered the British as the "guys who were actually doing something and weren't Communists." :lol:
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Re: Dunkirk

Postby Paul Lakowski » 08 Jan 2018 06:49

OpanaPointer wrote:
Paul Lakowski wrote:
OpanaPointer wrote:Fun fact: After Dunkirk the US sent one half million Lee-Enfields to the Brits. Public opinion swung progressively to the Allied side after Dunkirk. By November, 1941, it was in the 70%. Twice in 1941 FDR's cabinet was unanimous in their belief that Roosevelt could get a declaration of war against Japan if they attacked British-Dutch possessions in the Far East even if US territory was not attacked.

So, wars are not won by retreats, but the war for public opinion in the US certainly.



to me this is why Churchill's efforts to get America behind BoB were so critical to the war effort.

It wasn't going to be hard. We considered the British as the "guys who were actually doing something." After June 1941 we considered the British as the "guys who were actually doing something and weren't Communists." :lol:



Sounds good but I read US opinion poles were 3: 1 against helping in another European war.


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