Come and See (1985) Discussion

Discussions on WW2 and pre-WW2 related movies, games, military art and other fiction.
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Ando
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Come and See (1985) Discussion

Post by Ando » 25 Nov 2002 13:30

How many people here has seen this movie?

The way the movie portrays the Germans was as if every one of them was a crazy blood thirsty murderer who enjoyed burning kids and raping woman. It was made in 1985 so I am guessing that the Soviet government wouldn't have let any movie be released that didn't match its war propaganda. Why did the Germans have to laugh so much, I doubt their mental state was portrayed accurately. Am I wrong?

Overall I enjoyed the film and would recommend it, I liked how they used real bullets and explosives on some occasions, it created some very realistic and harrowing scenes.

Any other comments on the movie?

Ando

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Simon H
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Come and See

Post by Simon H » 25 Nov 2002 13:54

I remember that the first time I saw this film how suddenly shocked I was during the sequence when the villagers are hounded into the church. Some Germans are posing with cameras and although I guess I should have guessed what was going to happen it is still brutal when you see the grenades being thrown through the windows.

I don't know much about the political scene in Russia when it was made, but there are a few war films that were banned inside the SU.

Still a good film though, the hero has to carry his rifle thru the whole film before getting a chance to empty it into a portrait of Hitler.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Re: Come and See (1985) Discussion

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 25 Nov 2002 20:33

Ando wrote:How many people here has seen this movie?

The way the movie portrays the Germans was as if every one of them was a crazy blood thirsty murderer who enjoyed burning kids and raping woman. It was made in 1985 so I am guessing that the Soviet government wouldn't have let any movie be released that didn't match its war propaganda. Why did the Germans have to laugh so much, I doubt their mental state was portrayed accurately. Am I wrong?

Overall I enjoyed the film and would recommend it, I liked how they used real bullets and explosives on some occasions, it created some very realistic and harrowing scenes.

Any other comments on the movie?

Ando
after 3 yeras of war one can hardly be "human" in pre-war meaning of the word.

the movie is about German "death squads" - people who often voulanteered for that kind of work are bound to be "spical"

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Post by Ljunggren » 26 Nov 2002 07:30

I saw it in a movietheater back in the ´80s when it first was released and I´ve been looking for a copy on video or dvd ever since. I remember it as a very surreal and beautiful movie with many levels - not only portraying the atrocities of the einsatzgruppen.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 26 Nov 2002 08:15

Ljunggren wrote:I saw it in a movietheater back in the ´80s when it first was released and I´ve been looking for a copy on video or dvd ever since. I remember it as a very surreal and beautiful movie with many levels - not only portraying the atrocities of the einsatzgruppen.


Image

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... d&n=507846

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imi912
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Re: Come and See (1985) Discussion

Post by imi912 » 08 Aug 2016 09:24

slightly elongated film, some scenes are typically delayed long but perfectly illustrates the Germans in terms of character, well they picked up by the German faces

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Marcus
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Re: Come and See (1985) Discussion

Post by Marcus » 21 Aug 2016 16:40

Several posts mostly discussing real life war crimes were split off into a new thread at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4&t=223927

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Guaporense
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Re: Come and See (1985) Discussion

Post by Guaporense » 24 Aug 2016 03:06

Ando wrote:How many people here has seen this movie?

The way the movie portrays the Germans was as if every one of them was a crazy blood thirsty murderer who enjoyed burning kids and raping woman. It was made in 1985 so I am guessing that the Soviet government wouldn't have let any movie be released that didn't match its war propaganda. Why did the Germans have to laugh so much, I doubt their mental state was portrayed accurately. Am I wrong?
Well, other Soviet WW2 films are less concerned about portraying Germans as psychopaths and killers. Such as Tarkovsky's Ivan's Childhood or the Cranes are Flying.

Now, it's technically impossible for a nation to have a population that is 100% composed of psychopathic murderers which means that it's obviously not an accurate portrayal of German soldiers in WW2. Like soldiers from any country, German soldiers were just regular people that were forced into service by the government: most of these soldiers just wanted to survive the war and the ones who enjoyed killing civilians were a tiny minority of psychopaths.
Overall I enjoyed the film and would recommend it, I liked how they used real bullets and explosives on some occasions, it created some very realistic and harrowing scenes.

Any other comments on the movie?

Ando
I think it's a good movie but it's badly edited and paced and also has the issue of portraying Germans as not-humans.
"In tactics, as in strategy, superiority in numbers is the most common element of victory." - Carl von Clausewitz

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Re: Come and See (1985) Discussion

Post by Stiltzkin » 24 Aug 2016 03:36

Most of these movies are made to fuel nationalism, build up emotions, generate an enemy image (often as Monsters, although for Psychopaths like Dirlwanglers unit or Japanese torturers that would be the case). There are movies which could be summed up as being revisionistic (White Tiger) and propagandistic (Bondarchuks Stalingrad), often they would project their own behviour on the enemy (raping, stealing). Some Nazis were family fathers, playing with their children and then going to do their job in a concentration camp or execution unit (as if it was their regular job). Their ideology, superiority complexes and racism benumbed them from feeling pity and remorse. I would say that Polanskis Pianist did an overall better job at portraying different kind of characters (or "der Untergang/Downfall"). There is a certain banality attached to it.
Though I personally doubt that we will see any good WW2 movie in the nearest future. Germany will barely touch that subject, Russia would never make a movie about their atrocities (or things like Katyn) or failures like Operation Mars (the Americans did make a movie about Market Garden and Hürtgen, besides those silly John Wayne cigar in his mouth movies).

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Re: Come and See (1985) Discussion

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Aug 2016 23:21

The crimes were real but I think they went too far with portraying the SS as lunatics. I thought Schindler's List and Pianist did it more realistically according to image from Holocaust books and "Masters of Death".

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Guaporense
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Re: Come and See (1985) Discussion

Post by Guaporense » 25 Aug 2016 00:13

I didn't know there was an American movie about Hürtgen.
"In tactics, as in strategy, superiority in numbers is the most common element of victory." - Carl von Clausewitz

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Re: Come and See (1985) Discussion

Post by Stiltzkin » 25 Aug 2016 00:23

I didn't know there was an American movie about Hürtgen.
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