More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

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Simon K
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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by Simon K » 24 Dec 2008 20:30

There are no links with Scientology :)

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valkyrie
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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by valkyrie » 24 Dec 2008 23:39

Stephan George undoubtedly influenced Stauffenberg and made him the man he was. But I would argue that people like Tresckow had far more influence on making him take part in the conspiracy. Baigent and Leigh's book is interesting but it is structuured to defend a single thesis and the George bio you note for obvious reasons focuses on George's influence on Stauffenberg - I still think Hoffmann's bio is far more scholarly and unbiased in its approach IMO.

I don't get the pre-judging of the movie when it gets released tomorrow - why not wait a day and actually see it and review it - pro or con?

Hope you see it and enjoy it.

Colin
Last edited by valkyrie on 25 Dec 2008 02:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Simon K
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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by Simon K » 24 Dec 2008 23:44

Thanks Valkyrie

Will check out Hoffmans work now. It seems a very large body of related themes. Sound good.

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valkyrie
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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by valkyrie » 25 Dec 2008 02:42

His "History of the German Resistance" is one of my fave books. I have burned out 3 copies. You can get lost for days in his notes. The man is a true scholar rarely found in today's Mcuniversity systems at least here in the Great White North. Have a safe and happy Christmas all!.

Colin

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Dan W.
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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by Dan W. » 25 Dec 2008 17:21

valkyrie wrote:Stephan George undoubtedly influenced Stauffenberg and made him the man he was. But I would argue that people like Tresckow had far more influence on making him take part in the conspiracy. Baigent and Leigh's book is interesting but it is structuured to defend a single thesis and the George bio you note for obvious reasons focuses on George's influence on Stauffenberg - I still think Hoffmann's bio is far more scholarly and unbiased in its approach IMO.

I don't get the pre-judging of the movie when it gets released tomorrow - why not wait a day and actually see it and review it - pro or con?

Hope you see it and enjoy it.

Colin
I'm not prejudging it, I'm much more concerned that they took great pains to make it accurate than I am about Tom Cruise's performance. I'm glad this film was done with historical accuracy paramount to its story. As far as Cruise is concerned, its embarrassing to me that motion pictures must follow the "blockbuster" lead formula in choosing who is to star in films like these. Other than Cruise, the cast looks to be all British, and I think Americans cant pull of playing members of the Wehrmacht. I've already seen Branagh play a completely believable Heydrich and am very much looking forward to seeing his performance, as well as the rest, even Cruise. Merry Xmas Colin (and I'm looking forward to your review).

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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by valkyrie » 27 Dec 2008 02:35

Link to an extraorinarily stupid embarrassing and unprofessional review of Valkyrie by Roger Friedman. Why aren't the German soldiers whering armbands - apparently he got the uniforms wrong............OMG! And Stauffenberg doesn't sound German!?!?!?!?!? I guess its is what happens when you ban a Tom Cruise hater from the premiere. Given its on Fox, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,473079,00.html

and a rather gentle rebuttal - too gentle in my view

http://www.fafarazzi.com/gossip/434777/ ... medium=rss

My 23 year old made an interesting commment - he thought that Friedman's views were just as one-sided, narrow minded and as bigotted as those of the holocaust deniers that he claims to concerned about.

Colin

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Qvist
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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by Qvist » 27 Dec 2008 09:13

That review really scrapes the barrel in ignorance and idiocy. He is basically criticising the film for failing to correspond to his own stereotype of a hollywood nazi officer! I mean, arm-bands. Quite possibly the stupidest review I have read of anything, ever.

cheers

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Walküre
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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by Walküre » 27 Dec 2008 09:15

Qvist wrote:That review really scrapes the barrel in ignorance and idiocy. He is basically criticising the film for failing to correspond to his own stereotype of a hollywood nazi officer! I mean, arm-bands. Quite possibly the stupidest review I have read of anything, ever.

cheers
Agreed! The guy is a genuine schmuck!

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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by J. Duncan » 27 Dec 2008 11:21

I viewed the film last night. It's a better film than what is usually churned out by Hollywood. Entertaining but not an outstanding film by any stretch of the imagination. I saw many familiar faces (actors) from previous Hitler films, namely HBO's "Conspiracy" and that terribly awful CBS/Abe Foxman/ADL "Hitler: The Rise of Evil". Superman's "General Zod" as Ludwig Beck. It's amazing what they can do with computers! (The Ju-87's and the Berghoff re-creations). I think some background on Stauffenberg (his youth) would have made the film better...the one part I found ridiculous is when the crippled Stauffenberg arms the bomb even though his adjudant is present, handy, and able-bodied - and actually there to do it? (why didn't the adjudant just do it then?). The film did not go into the aftermath enough - how about Ludwig Beck's suicide? The suicide was actually botched - I think Beck needed a coup-de-grace to finish him off but the film gives the impression that Beck simply killed himself and that was it. The actual Beck affair was a scene of horror that could have been better portrayed. Mercifully, the film was only 2 hours (and not dragged out into 3+ hours like so many other films) but I was looking for more background and aftermath. Goebbel's actions on that day were extremely instrumental in turning the tide against the conspirators but this was downplayed (Goebbels was very much the political "general" on july 20 - keeping his cool and surgically dissecting Berlin more than the Conspirators did on that day) I think Remer's role was accurately given however. Remer was THE man of the hour, but he was mostly under Goebbel's direction. Overall, I liked the film but wish there was more depth in it - characterization, motivational interests, background info. The movie was able to have a degree of suspense for an event in which one knows the outcome. This helped to keep things moving at a good pace, so it was not boring. I did not think Cruise was a good fit for this role...his demeanor kept reminding me of "Mission Impossible"..maybe Joachim Phoenix would have been a better actor for the role? These are only my opinions, NOT to be taken seriously. Cheers. (Duncan)

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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by Alecci » 27 Dec 2008 13:17

Graf Stauffenberg did actually arm the bomb despite the fact that his adjutant, von Haeften, was present as well. Heaften had earlier volunteered to make an assassination attempt on Hitler, but withdrew from the task when asked by his brother if he really wanted to break the fifth commandment. Perhaps Graf Stauffenberg also felt that he had to do it since he was the assassin.

I'm still waiting for the picture to turn up on Swedish cinemas on January 30th.

Concerning the reviews, like others wrote, if it gets the thumbs up from Peter Hoffmann, I'm sure I'll like it.

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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by valkyrie » 27 Dec 2008 15:56

Alex - I think you will like it rather a lot but probably no w/o minor reservations. Sorry you have to wait so long - this must be infuruating watching others talk about it and you having to wait. My sympathies!

Re. Graf Stauffenberg's decision to arm trhe bomb himself - recall that there had been many misfires by officers who had undertaken to killl Hitler but lost their nerve at the 11th hour. The assassination had to go off this time. Stauffenberg had personally undertaken to do the deed himself to ensure it did. While I am sure he felt he could have trusted Haeften, his personal undertaknig to commit the act would be important to him given his character - a matter of honour. More importantly I believe he saw it as a holy or mystical calling to personally rid Germany and the world of Hitler. Perhaps a matter of pride of sorts? Allowing Haeften to actually arm the bomb would have interfered with that self imposed role. Finally, Stauffenberg was a devout Catholic and he had already come to terms with the fact that murdering Hitler could cost him his immortal soul. Standing by while a jr. officer under his command and friend put himself in that position would have been intolerable for such a man of honour. That is the sort of character that you can nver even begin to squeeze into a 2 hour film.

Valkyrie's version of the bomb arming scene is the first reconstruction I've seen that posits a credible scenario for why Stauffenberg only armed one bomb, a key what if in history.

Colin
Last edited by valkyrie on 27 Dec 2008 20:31, edited 1 time in total.

Kar43
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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by Kar43 » 27 Dec 2008 16:49

I saw the film yesterday. It generated a great deal of suspense leading up to and during the attempt. There was about as much information as you could get into a film with a two-hour length.

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Craig Artzner
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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by Craig Artzner » 28 Dec 2008 23:49

I just saw it and enjoyed it. I know the basic facts of the Assassination Attempt but not enough to know what was true and what may have been embellished in the movie.

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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by Craig Artzner » 29 Dec 2008 00:12

On a side note, I found Kevin McNally (who played Dr. Carl Goerdeler) to have a striking resemblance to Patrick Wymark (who played Col. Turner in "Where Eagles Dare"). Check it out:

Image

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Re: More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

Post by arty05 » 29 Dec 2008 19:07

Please forgive my newness, I came across this site in my search for an answer to a question I had after watching Valkyrie. I noticed, throughout the movie, that the uniforms would alternate between wearing the ribbon bar(s) and not... showing just the holes for the mounting pin on the left breast. You can see it in the picture in the above post if you look at Von Tresckow's (Kenneth Branagh) uniform.. note the holes above the left pocket rather than the ribbon bar.

I can't seem to find an explanation for this and I thought the educated minds here might be able to shed some light on this for me. It happened enough that it couldn't have been an unintentional oversight.

The help and wisdom is much appreciated!

~Arty

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