More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film

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Pax Melmacia
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Post by Pax Melmacia » 23 Jul 2007 08:19

I guess his publicists think the picture with only the eyepatch showing makes Pretty-boy look dashing. I wonder how much they have to pay him to consent to appear with missing arm and maimed hand?

And what's this rumor I hear that when Cruise's Stauffenberg heard the news that Hitler was dead, he was so overjoyed he leaped onto a couch? :lol:

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valkyrie
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Post by valkyrie » 23 Jul 2007 17:56

"Plotter's grandson cast in Hitler movie with Tom Cruise"

http://www.eux.tv/article.aspx?articleId=11687

Colin

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colt45
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Post by colt45 » 23 Jul 2007 19:56

mabye when Tom jumps on the couch, Opra will kick him off wearing the armband?

Alecci
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Post by Alecci » 24 Jul 2007 20:24

valkyrie wrote:Cruise in costume.

We're not off to a good start!

Collar litzen are the wrong colour (s/b raspberry for GS insde the white). Also where is the iron cross button ribbon & medal, his gold wound badge and perhaps his ribbon bar?

I assume they will remove his left hand and fingers from his right using CG, hence the $100 M budget?

Colin
Just a slight correction, it was his right hand that was missing (from between the wrist and the elbow down), as well as the ring- and little fingers on his left hand.
Kurt_Steiner wrote:Doing a random research in this very forum, I've found the following on von Stauffenberg's awards:

SCHENK GRAF von STAUFFENBERG, Claus (1907 - 1944)
Oberst i.G.

Decorations & Awards:
Sword of Honor 17.08.1929
Distinguished Service Badge, IVth Class 02.10.1936
Distinguished Service Badge, IIIrd Class 01.04.1938
Iron Cross, Ist Class 31.05.1940
Royal Bulgarian Order of Bravery, IVth Class 25.10.1941
Finnish Liberty Cross, IIIrd Class 11.12.1942
Wound Badge in Gold 14.04.1943
Italian-German Rememberance Medal 20.04.1943


...
I saw that you quoted me, and that I forgot to include his German Cross in Gold as well as his Iron Cross IInd Class in that list. I still have no dates for those awards of his.
Kurt_Steiner wrote:
colt45 wrote:Who made the bomb? , was it pre tested?
IIRC, Colonel Baron Wessel Freiherr von Freytag Loringhoven (1899-1944) procured the detonator charge and explosives for the bomb.
Correct, Freiherr Freytag von Loringhoven of the Abwehr procured the exlosives for the assassination attempts, although Graf Stauffenberg received them from Lieutenant-Colonel (Res.) von der Lancken (Olbricht's adjutant), who was responsible for keeping the explosives between the assassination attempts.

If someone had a line of communication with the film-makers I would gladly help them in making the movie more historically accurate.

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valkyrie
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Izzard joins, Cruise photo and the German Cross in Gold

Post by valkyrie » 24 Jul 2007 20:46

Eddie Izzard has joined the cast - perhaps as Hitler!?!?! Nope - Studio Babelsberg also disclosed that Hitler would be played by British actor David Bamber, who played a Bob Geldof look-alike in the movie "I Am Bob" earlier this year

http://www.britfilms.tv/index.php?id=2674

I have attached a good publicityshot of Tom Cruise mimicking the famous profile photo of CvS.

Alecci - CvS' award of the german Cross in Gold is ID'd as 08.05.43 (see http://12er-aufklaerer.de/Tradition/rr17.htm). The attached letter and sold by Andre Huesken last year is consistent. Original catalogue entry read:

STAUFFENBERG. Brief an Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg von Generaloberst Blaskowitz als Oberbefehlshaber der 1. Armee, A. H. Qu. 20. VI. 1943 "Lieber Stauffenberg! Nochmal Schwein gehabt! Da ich nicht Medizinmann bin, kann ich leider nicht helfen. Glückwunsch zum Deutschen Kreuz in Gold. Vom Herzen baldige Genesung...........". 1 Seite mit Kopf. * Nach seiner am 7. April in Afrika erlittenen Verwundung brachte man den schwer verwundeten Stauffenberg in eine Münchner Klinik. Im Mai überbrachte Generaloberst Kurt Zeitzler das Goldene Verwundetenabzeichen

And of course you are correct on the left vs the right - how stupid of me to reverse his injuries!

Thanks

Colin
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valkyrie
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Procurement of CvS' explosive

Post by valkyrie » 24 Jul 2007 21:01

Alecci - On the procurement of explosive:

Based on Peter Hoffmann's well regarded work (see extensive discussion in Ch. 38 text and footnotes 7-10 to his "History of the German Resistance" 1st Edition ), I didn't think the specific origin of the explosive used on July 20 had been determined either by the SD or by others afterward. While it is clear that Freytag-Lorinhoven did procure explosive, I don't think it can be said or certain that this was the material that was used on that day at that place. Can you cite any other sources? Sorry to be particular but this is a topic that interests me rather a lot given my research into the life of Oberstleutnant Werner Schrader.

Thanks

Colin

Alecci
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Post by Alecci » 24 Jul 2007 21:34

Colin mate,

The explosives were captured ordnance of British origin, and this is probably the reason why Freiherr Freytag von Loringhoven, with his appointment to the Abwehr, was the one to procure the explosives. Surely the Abwehr took care of some of the captured weapons and ordnance of the enemy, both for reasons of research and education of the personnel of the German armed forces. After all, the best way to defeat your enemy is to know him, and also to copy and/or further develop the weapons he is using against you. The specific origin, however, is currently nothing I'm further knowledgable about. The statement about the explosives being British is made by Hoffmann in Stauffenberg - A family history, 1905-1944. I'm sorry I cannot provide you with a page number, but I'm away from home on vacation and I didn't take the book with me.

The reason for choosing British explosives was, if I'm not mistaken, because those fuses were the most suitable concerning the timing of the explosion and resistance to variations caused by temperatures, etc.

Many thanks for the date of Graf Stauffenberg's DKiG, it's most appreciated. Not it's only the award date of the EKII that's missing. I doubt, however, with regards to the great number of awards of this particular decoration, that we will be able to find it out.

Oddly enough, Hoffmann does not state in his biography of Graf Stauffenberg when the DKiG and the EKII were awared, in fact he doesn't mention them at all!

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Post by Andreas » 25 Jul 2007 10:23

A completely OT post by Ahamed that had swiped IMDB reviews for a different film and two responses to it have been removed by me.

Everybody, please stay on topic.

Thanks.

All the best

Andreas

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valkyrie
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Stauffenberg's glass eye

Post by valkyrie » 25 Jul 2007 14:29

Here's a completely esoteric point - if they want accuracy in the film, I think they should show Stauffenberg at Wolfschanze without his eye patch. I don't believe he wore it on July 20. Look at the famous photo of him with Hitler on July 15 (attached), the occasion of his first attempt. He is clearly not wearing his eye patch as hte cord would be visible across his forehead if he had been.

It is also clear that he had a glass eye available and that he used it on occasion -

"Stauffenberg merely had himslef fitted for a glass eye. He did not commonly wear it, but if he was suddenly summoned to see very important superiors he would send his driver to 'fetch his eyesight'." {Hoffmann - Stauffenberg p. 187]

A friend of mine was interviewing Ewald Heinrich v. Kleist (who was present at the Bendler on July 20) for a web site proejct in 1999 and he was kind enough to ask Herr Kleist a couple of questions for me. One of my queries was whether or not CvS wore his eye patch on July 20 - Kleist asnwered 'yes'.

Basd on this, I would postulate that he wore his glass eye at Wolfschanze on July 20 and removed it on the 3 hour flight back to the Bendler where he appeared with his iconic eye patch.

Why did I care? I was sculpting a scale portrait of him at the time and wanted to get the detailed facts right on such minute as his eye patch, whether or not he wore a prosthetic right hand, his eye and hair colour, whetehr he wore his medals and awards etc.

Colin
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Alecci
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Post by Alecci » 25 Jul 2007 15:33

Yes, Graf Stauffenberg had a glass eye, but like Hoffmann stated (and I've read this in other sources as well), he seldom wore it. On the picture from Wolfsschanze on 15th July, you can barely make out something that might be a cord for the eyepatch, if you look at the weird profile of his forehead, there's something there that's not consistent with earlier profile photos of Graf Stauffenberg. Of course, you'll need the picture in higher resolution for this.

In addition, with regards to Graf Stauffenberg's personal opinions of Hitler and his immediate subordinates, there might actually be reasonable doubt to him considering these men as "important superiors". This, I think, would also appeal to Graf Stauffenberg's sense of humour/irony. Furthermore, and most importantly, Warlimont clearly states in his witness account of Graf Stauffenberg arriving to the briefing session on 20th July, that he did wear his eye patch.

I remember reading somewhere (sorry I cannot recall the source for this), that Graf Stauffenberg favoured the eye patch over the glass because of him having to clean/bathe his left eye socket quite often, using small pieces of cotton, especially during the first months after his injuries. Gisevius also recalls this from his first encounter with Graf Stauffenberg at the Strüncks in Berlin.

I've read about your inquiry with von Kleist, transmitted via your friend Natteau (spelling?), in another thread. Several other witnesses also indicate that Graf Stauffenberg wore the eye patch on 20th July.

By the way, and I think you already know this, Graf Stauffenberg never had himself successfully fitted for a prosthetic wrist and hand.

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valkyrie
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Post by valkyrie » 25 Jul 2007 16:09

Thanks Alex - I agree with all your comments except your assertion that evidence of eye patch might be seen on July 15 picture - I have looked at this in fairly high res. and can see no such evidence, especially when I compare it to the only photo I know of where CvS wears his eye patch and the cord is clearly visible across his right brow and hairline.

Not that it really matters - When it comes right down to it, its pretty much an immaterial historical curiosity.

Cheers

Colin

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Post by Alecci » 25 Jul 2007 16:39

Colin mate,

I'm not dead set on the fact that he wore the eye patch on 15th July, I just think there's something strange about the profile of his forehead on that particular picture, compared to earlier pictures of him. On the other hand, this might as well be because of shadows or whatever.

Like you said, it doesn't really matter. And I think that we have established the fact that he did wear the eye patch throughout 20th July, at least. The witness accounts of Warlimont, von Kleist and that of one of Olbricht's secretaries (Delia Ziegler o Alix von Winterfeldt) are all consistent with each other on this point.

As a side note, I know of two pictures of Graf Stauffenberg wearing his eye patch, although they were both taken at the same time (during his convalescence leave in Lautlingen during the summer of 1943). I don't have any of those pictures on my laptop, however, and I also doubt I'm allowed to post them here because of copyright issues. In any case, this would take us quite a bit off-topic for this thread.

Nevertheless, it's always interesting (for me at least) to discuss all and any aspects of Graf Stauffenberg and his life.

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Post by AHAMED » 25 Jul 2007 21:32

I can't believe that, despite the fact that Germany BANNED him from doing this movie in the historical places in their country, Cruise - barreled right past them and is doing it anyway!

Money buys a lot of things, but it doesn't entitle ANYONE to be THAT arrogant!

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Post by Van der Waal » 25 Jul 2007 23:18

Arrogance? What the hell?

Ok, so from your point of view, a Production that was already underway and proceeding as planned should just be stopped because a government (which allows for the laws which make Germany such a rabid breeding ground for moviemakers currently [IE, subsidizing / tax deductions]) says you can't use specific urban locations? Yes, they denied him access to film at the location where Graf Stauffenberg and co-conspirators were shot... So what? Doesn't mean he can't make the movie! Geez...

Give me a break.

VdW

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Post by Kurt_Steiner » 25 Jul 2007 23:45

Alecci wrote:I saw that you quoted me, and that I forgot to include his German Cross in Gold as well as his Iron Cross IInd Class in that list. I still have no dates for those awards of his.
I don't know anyone more reliable on this topic in this forum than you, Alecci, so the mistakes are obviously mine, not yours. I haven't found the dates for those awards, neither. It's a kind of mistery.
Alecci wrote:Correct, Freiherr Freytag von Loringhoven of the Abwehr procured the exlosives for the assassination attempts, although Graf Stauffenberg received them from Lieutenant-Colonel (Res.) von der Lancken (Olbricht's adjutant), who was responsible for keeping the explosives between the assassination attempts.
Indeed. IIRC, Oberstleutnant Fritz von der Lancken (1890-1944) delivered the time bomb concealed briefcase to von Stauffenberg on July 19, 1944. I think it was on a meeting in his house in Postdam. He worked with Olbricht in the Allgemeine Heeresamt in the Oberkommando des Heeres

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