More on Cruise's Stauffenberg film
These are my thoughts on Cruise playing Graf Stauffenberg...
First of all, I don't know the man personally, so him being a nice guy or not in his private life does matter to me. In the future, when I'll watch this movie, I'll do it because I want to experience/re-live, in some small manner, the events of that day in history, not because I want to see Tom Cruise. As long as Mr Cruise can keep his religious and political views out of the picture, I have no problem with them. How he is as a private person, on any level, will be none of my concern until the day I meet the guy, and I doubt that will ever happen.
As a matter of fact, I always enjoyed Cruise's performance in his previous movies. Surely, he's had some ups and downs like mostly every other actor, but on average I think his doing a good job. His best role so far, in my opinion, was playing Lestat de Lioncourt in Interview with the Vampire. When I saw this movie, I had already read all the volumes of the Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice, and so had my mind clearly made up about what sort of character Lestat would be and even his physical appearance. To my own surprise, as well to Anne Rice's, Cruise portrayed Lestat in a manner that I doubt any other actor could do. Notwithstanding a critical remark here and there, I still consider Cruise to be one of the best actors out there (please not that I did not say the best).
For a movie on this subject to be broadly recognized and received by the world audience, I think you actually do need to have a reknown moviestar in the leading role. Of basically all great actors known all over the world, Cruise seems to me like the one that comes closest to resembling Graf Stauffenberg when it comes to physical appearance. I'd rather have a too short actor with a matching face, than an actor with the historically correct height but no facial resemblance play Graf Stauffenberg.
Another positive thing about casting Cruise as Graf Stauffenberg is that hopefully they'll spare no expense in making this movie, whether it's historically correct or not. Personally I already have some basic knowledge about Graf Stauffenberg, the coup d'etat and the German resistance, so I wouldn't mind if some minor details are not historically correct, as long as the story captivates me, it contains the most significant and/or major historical details and above all that it is well made. I'd prefer this any day over some low-budget film with unknown and poor actors and second-rate (at best) SFX. Like I said, I know the real story, I don't need it to be correctly recreated in the tiniest detail in order to enjoy it. That does not mean, however, that I would not enjoy it more had it been historically correct through and through.
Regarding the discussion concerning Cruise's ability or his lack thereof to do accents, I really couldn't care much less. Seen from my point of view, as a non-native speaker of the English language, it does not matter. Either all actors in the movie should speak German (historically correct), or no one need to (not historically correct). The movie does not become more true to history just because the actors in it use or do not use an accent. In addition, since I speak neither English or German on an everyday basis, it would not add to the atmosphere of the film either. I think the issue of the accents is only an issue to the English-speaking audience.
Last but not least, I'm very happy to see that there is finally one big-budget movie produced on this subject. It seems to me that a majority of people in the world fail to see that not all Germans in the German armed forces during that time were Nazis. I've always had the impression that it's some sort of taboo in Hollywood against portraying German officers of the Nazi area as heroes. Consequently no one has put any real effort in making a good movie on this subject, and the results have been as can be imagined. Now, for once, someone is putting money and effort into making this subject known to the wider audience, and I think it's a pity that people everywhere complain so much about it.
Like everyone on here, I for one also hope the movie will be as true to history as possible. But we are not in a position to judge wheter it is or not until we have seen the completed project. Please keep your complaints and critical remarks until then.
My €0.02 on the subject.
First of all, I don't know the man personally, so him being a nice guy or not in his private life does matter to me. In the future, when I'll watch this movie, I'll do it because I want to experience/re-live, in some small manner, the events of that day in history, not because I want to see Tom Cruise. As long as Mr Cruise can keep his religious and political views out of the picture, I have no problem with them. How he is as a private person, on any level, will be none of my concern until the day I meet the guy, and I doubt that will ever happen.
As a matter of fact, I always enjoyed Cruise's performance in his previous movies. Surely, he's had some ups and downs like mostly every other actor, but on average I think his doing a good job. His best role so far, in my opinion, was playing Lestat de Lioncourt in Interview with the Vampire. When I saw this movie, I had already read all the volumes of the Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice, and so had my mind clearly made up about what sort of character Lestat would be and even his physical appearance. To my own surprise, as well to Anne Rice's, Cruise portrayed Lestat in a manner that I doubt any other actor could do. Notwithstanding a critical remark here and there, I still consider Cruise to be one of the best actors out there (please not that I did not say the best).
For a movie on this subject to be broadly recognized and received by the world audience, I think you actually do need to have a reknown moviestar in the leading role. Of basically all great actors known all over the world, Cruise seems to me like the one that comes closest to resembling Graf Stauffenberg when it comes to physical appearance. I'd rather have a too short actor with a matching face, than an actor with the historically correct height but no facial resemblance play Graf Stauffenberg.
Another positive thing about casting Cruise as Graf Stauffenberg is that hopefully they'll spare no expense in making this movie, whether it's historically correct or not. Personally I already have some basic knowledge about Graf Stauffenberg, the coup d'etat and the German resistance, so I wouldn't mind if some minor details are not historically correct, as long as the story captivates me, it contains the most significant and/or major historical details and above all that it is well made. I'd prefer this any day over some low-budget film with unknown and poor actors and second-rate (at best) SFX. Like I said, I know the real story, I don't need it to be correctly recreated in the tiniest detail in order to enjoy it. That does not mean, however, that I would not enjoy it more had it been historically correct through and through.
Regarding the discussion concerning Cruise's ability or his lack thereof to do accents, I really couldn't care much less. Seen from my point of view, as a non-native speaker of the English language, it does not matter. Either all actors in the movie should speak German (historically correct), or no one need to (not historically correct). The movie does not become more true to history just because the actors in it use or do not use an accent. In addition, since I speak neither English or German on an everyday basis, it would not add to the atmosphere of the film either. I think the issue of the accents is only an issue to the English-speaking audience.
Last but not least, I'm very happy to see that there is finally one big-budget movie produced on this subject. It seems to me that a majority of people in the world fail to see that not all Germans in the German armed forces during that time were Nazis. I've always had the impression that it's some sort of taboo in Hollywood against portraying German officers of the Nazi area as heroes. Consequently no one has put any real effort in making a good movie on this subject, and the results have been as can be imagined. Now, for once, someone is putting money and effort into making this subject known to the wider audience, and I think it's a pity that people everywhere complain so much about it.
Like everyone on here, I for one also hope the movie will be as true to history as possible. But we are not in a position to judge wheter it is or not until we have seen the completed project. Please keep your complaints and critical remarks until then.
My €0.02 on the subject.
Actually, if I go into the cinema to see the English language version and find that everybody speaks with a fake German accent, I'll get up and leave to watch the dubbed German version later.Alecci wrote: Regarding the discussion concerning Cruise's ability or his lack thereof to do accents, I really couldn't care much less. Seen from my point of view, as a non-native speaker of the English language, it does not matter. Either all actors in the movie should speak German (historically correct), or no one need to (not historically correct). The movie does not become more true to history just because the actors in it use or do not use an accent. In addition, since I speak neither English or German on an everyday basis, it would not add to the atmosphere of the film either. I think the issue of the accents is only an issue to the English-speaking audience.
Germans do not speak with accents when they speak German (they may have a local dialect, but that's a different story altogether). There is no benefit whatsoever to make them speak with accents in any movie, unless it is a send-up, or they are actually speaking English in the scene portrayed in the movie. German actors appearing in English-language movies are of course a different matter.
I do not think (hope/pray) that they will go for this fallacy, and I have no idea whether whoever brought this up originally is working from his or her own expectations, or anything provided by the film company.
All the best
Andreas
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Pax Melmacia
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IMO there would be no need for German accents, What would seem odd would be for Cruise to use an American accent while his co-stars use British accents.
The most obvious parallel is, of course, Costner's Robin Hood. Now I'm sure the English in those days was nothing like today's English, yet, I think as far as movies go, the accents/dialects should not be too different from each other; it just wouldn't sound right, unless ther is a deliberate need for a different accent with some characters, like Scottish.
On another note, even if Cruise is in the movie, I sincerely hope this film does well. A good WW2 movie today would only benefit our niche.
That said, how about we have a contest to see who is the first comedian to make a 'bomb' joke if the movie should fail:
'D'you all see that movie 'Valkyrie'? That's the one where Tom Cruise delivers this big bomb on screen. (pause) Naw. Too easy!"
The most obvious parallel is, of course, Costner's Robin Hood. Now I'm sure the English in those days was nothing like today's English, yet, I think as far as movies go, the accents/dialects should not be too different from each other; it just wouldn't sound right, unless ther is a deliberate need for a different accent with some characters, like Scottish.
On another note, even if Cruise is in the movie, I sincerely hope this film does well. A good WW2 movie today would only benefit our niche.
That said, how about we have a contest to see who is the first comedian to make a 'bomb' joke if the movie should fail:
'D'you all see that movie 'Valkyrie'? That's the one where Tom Cruise delivers this big bomb on screen. (pause) Naw. Too easy!"
Alecci I have a different opinion.
I do not think it is neccesary to see the film to criticise the casting of Cruise as a German.
I cannot divorce someone from they're personality or public persona when they are trying to portray historical figures.
I am also biased by the fact I do not enjoy Cruise's acting at all - I hope he does not try and play the role with a German accent, his previous attempts at accents were laughable, and if he tries to play a German with an American accent I will find that equally laughable.
I understand that a big budget production will get more people interested in the topic - but to me that means nothing. The viewers will more likely get a biased rewritting of history hollwood style if previous big budget ww2 movies are anything to go by.
'Downfall', 'Stalingrad', 'Das Boot' are good examples of how films of the period can suceed with a sense of reality. They all had some flaws but overall gave me a much greater sense of what it would be like to live in those times.
I can imagine that 'Valkyrie' will have a love interest for Cruise - complete with botox and collagen lips.
I will not bother watching.
Regards.
Matt.
I do not think it is neccesary to see the film to criticise the casting of Cruise as a German.
I cannot divorce someone from they're personality or public persona when they are trying to portray historical figures.
I am also biased by the fact I do not enjoy Cruise's acting at all - I hope he does not try and play the role with a German accent, his previous attempts at accents were laughable, and if he tries to play a German with an American accent I will find that equally laughable.
I understand that a big budget production will get more people interested in the topic - but to me that means nothing. The viewers will more likely get a biased rewritting of history hollwood style if previous big budget ww2 movies are anything to go by.
'Downfall', 'Stalingrad', 'Das Boot' are good examples of how films of the period can suceed with a sense of reality. They all had some flaws but overall gave me a much greater sense of what it would be like to live in those times.
I can imagine that 'Valkyrie' will have a love interest for Cruise - complete with botox and collagen lips.
I will not bother watching.
Regards.
Matt.
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B Hellqvist
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If we had to wait 11-12 years for new war movies in German, with German actors, from a German perspective like "Das Boot" 1981, "Stalingrad" 1993, "Der Untergang" 2004, that would mean a lot less to view. While I'm a purist in many ways, I still enjoy "Cross of Iron", "The Eagle Has Landed" and "Conspiracy" despite them having mostly British and American actors. A good movie is a good movie, and a good actor can make a convincing role. Cruise escaped his "pretty boy" image with his role in "Born on the 4th of July", and managed to portray an angry war veteran in a wheelchair quite well. If all movies had to be made in the original language, shot on location, 100% true to actual events, and with unknown actors who are exact copies of the people they portray, no movies would be made. Anyone blasting a movie before it is even finished is pretty narrowminded. Apply the same standards to your war movie collection and weed out anything that isn't 100% correct, and you'll see that all that is left is the odd documentary. Not even "Der Untergang" is 100% true, but did it suck because Rochus Misch thought it did?
Y'know, I DID have to laugh outloud watching a recent
"Entertainment Tonight". They HAD teased with "First look at
Tom Cruise as a Nazi Officer".
Anyway, they went on to mention the lack of help from the
German Authorities, and Stauffenberg's kids complaining, then showed the
one pic of Cruise by the plane looking constipated.The female presenter, after the srticle, mentioned "This looks like an amazing story, and I for one
am very interested in hearing all about it"
This is where I laughed!
If she was "really interested " in a REAL WWII story, why is she waiting to hear it from a
Hollywood blockbuster movie? Why not READ A BOOK? Watch a documentary?
Sadly, this IS indicative of the general public's consensus of history.
They are only interested in history when Hollywood makes a movie about it, be it King Arthur, the
plight of Slaves from Africa, the crushing decimation of Native Americans or sadly, even 9/11.....
"Entertainment Tonight". They HAD teased with "First look at
Tom Cruise as a Nazi Officer".
Anyway, they went on to mention the lack of help from the
German Authorities, and Stauffenberg's kids complaining, then showed the
one pic of Cruise by the plane looking constipated.The female presenter, after the srticle, mentioned "This looks like an amazing story, and I for one
am very interested in hearing all about it"
This is where I laughed!
If she was "really interested " in a REAL WWII story, why is she waiting to hear it from a
Hollywood blockbuster movie? Why not READ A BOOK? Watch a documentary?
Sadly, this IS indicative of the general public's consensus of history.
They are only interested in history when Hollywood makes a movie about it, be it King Arthur, the
plight of Slaves from Africa, the crushing decimation of Native Americans or sadly, even 9/11.....
-
B Hellqvist
- Member
- Posts: 1073
- Joined: 29 Apr 2004, 01:45
- Location: Sweden
- Contact:
Here's the first thing I've seen that indicates who is playing who......this looks to me like there is actually hope of a good outcome.
http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/valkyrie/
Tom Wilkinson will make a great Fromm and Branagh will be much better as Tresckow than he was as Heydrich in Conspiracy. The others seem OK but I don't see a Beck in the crowd.
And here is a pro-Cruise-the-actor piece that may provide some balance for the naysayers' consideration.
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/film/2007/0 ... _pict.html
Colin
http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/valkyrie/
Tom Wilkinson will make a great Fromm and Branagh will be much better as Tresckow than he was as Heydrich in Conspiracy. The others seem OK but I don't see a Beck in the crowd.
And here is a pro-Cruise-the-actor piece that may provide some balance for the naysayers' consideration.
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/film/2007/0 ... _pict.html
Colin
Last edited by valkyrie on 01 Aug 2007, 12:46, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not nearly as quick to write off Cruise as some on this thread. I'm certainly no fan of his, never have been, but he shares some similar physical characterisitics between himself and Staufenberg IMO. I also think the criticism of his personal religious beliefs have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on his acting ability, and its silly to bring them up in reference to this film.
One definite benefit of having Cruise in the film is his name recognition as the lead. Like it or not, it will give the movie more weight and increase its visibility with moviegoers. And since its a joint U.S./German production there may be increased attention to historical detail than is usual from Hollywood.
Don't write the film off based on Cruise's past films or his nutty religious beliefs, just hope that he does some justice to the heroic actions of Staufenberg. If it is in any way close to being as good as Sophie Scholl: The Final Days then it promises to be a very good film in portraying the German resistance. It's a story that needs to be told.
One definite benefit of having Cruise in the film is his name recognition as the lead. Like it or not, it will give the movie more weight and increase its visibility with moviegoers. And since its a joint U.S./German production there may be increased attention to historical detail than is usual from Hollywood.
Don't write the film off based on Cruise's past films or his nutty religious beliefs, just hope that he does some justice to the heroic actions of Staufenberg. If it is in any way close to being as good as Sophie Scholl: The Final Days then it promises to be a very good film in portraying the German resistance. It's a story that needs to be told.
