Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

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colt45
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by colt45 » 04 Jan 2009 18:52

they piled a mound of DIRT in the court yard for a back drop to shoot him,, thought they were in a hurry?

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valkyrie
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by valkyrie » 05 Jan 2009 00:46

The sand pile was already there - probably for filling sandbags. It was accurate. The sand pile was also used in 2004's German feature "Stauffenberg."

Colin

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colt45
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by colt45 » 07 Jan 2009 01:36

What kind of pistol was handed to Gen. Beck, was it a PPK?

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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by Van der Waal » 07 Jan 2009 05:18

I dunno if anyone else noticed this, but when Hitler arrives at the front at the beginning of the film, I thought I noticed one of the staff officers in his retinue chewing bubblegum.

As I noticed it only fleetingly, I'd greatly appreciate this if someone could confirm this.

I enjoyed the movie, I hope all of you did, too.

- Adam

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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by JockCampbell41 » 09 Jan 2009 18:01

Would it be possible that staff officers, major and above, wore tunics with infantry litzen but crimson staff shoulderboards as a kind of daily working uniform?

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Dieter
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by Dieter » 09 Jan 2009 18:10

General Staff waffenfarb was/is Carmine Red, although it sure looks pink on screen. He also correctly had lampessen stripes on his breeches.

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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by Gerst » 09 Jan 2009 22:43

Please tell me more about the pants stripes. Who can wear these besides generals and what color?

Thanks,

Gerst

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colt45
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by colt45 » 10 Jan 2009 02:21

Gerst wrote:Please tell me more about the pants stripes. Who can wear these besides generals and what color?

Thanks, Staff Officers were allowed carmine stripes on the sides of pants

Gerst

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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by jjmcgr » 10 Jan 2009 16:38

There were no flubs in the depiction of Stauffenberg's uniform in terms of the insignia of the General Staff Officer Corps in the movie Valkyrie. The Waffenfarbe for the GSOs was indeed carmine, a type of red. This was displayed on the stripes on the pants, behind the shoulder boards and on cap piping. By 1944 it was only displayed on the collar tabs as backing cloth on the dress uniform. Cruise is shown wearing this uniform when he went to Berchtesgaden to get Hitler to sign the Valkyrie plan. Otherwise he wears the field GSO uniform throughout (except in the Tunisian scenes).

Aside from the use of carmine backing on the dress uniform, GSO collar tabs did not have inherent Waffenfarbe colored strips. The reason for this is that the collar tabs are different from the regular officer tabs in their design. A German would know just by looking at them that they were GS tabs. What some have seen as "infantry" white strips on the tabs are, in fact, silver cord that is part of the tab design. Unlike non-GS tabs, GS tabs only have a single open strip in the center. This was left uncolored in 1944 so that the collar color shows through. These special collar tabs were particularly prized by GSO members and aspirants and had been the collar tabs of the Prussian general staff in the imperial army. After WW1 the Reichswehr adopted this collar tab universally for its GS officers (who were not called that until the Wehrmacht period.

In the latest edition of World War II magazine, there is a picture on the cover of Stauffenberg as a Rittmeister in Poland in 1939 when he was serving as the Ib (G4) of the 1st Light Division. Although working in a GS position at the time, he was only attached to the GS and not yet eligible to wear the GS uniform. So in that picture he is wearing cavalry branch colors. Several months later he was assigned to the GS and his rank titled changed to Hauptmann and he was allowed to wear the uniform of the GS. If you compare this picture with pictures of Cruise as Stauffenberg, you will clearly see the differences in the tabs. To the non-German eye, the tabs look similar, but they are not the same design.

Most pictures of Stauffenberg that survive show him before he was a GSO, so it is rare to see him in GSO garb. The Nazis apparently destroyed all the recent pictures of him they could find. One picture that survives, which is also in the WWII magazine, is a picture of him with Hitler on the day of the dry run assassination attempt, 15 July 1944. This picture can also be found on the internet in many places. In that picture, Stauffenberg is clearly wearing the GSO tabs.

One actual flub, however, was that in the movie Stauffenberg's adjutant, Oberleutnant von Haeften, was wearing the GSO collar tabs. I don't think he wore the rest of the GSO uniform. In real life, I believe von Haeften was an infantry officer. By 1944, in any event, the entry rank for GSO service was major. After completing the required War Academy course, all GSO aspirants were automatically promoted to major if they were not already that grade. And only captains or majors could attend the course in the first place. Haeften was too junior to wear those tabs.

Most GSO aspirants served earlier in their careers as battalion or regimental adjutants. But the adjutant corps was a parallel career track to the GSO at field grade or higher grades. Most failed GSO candidates became adjutant officers. GSOs were concerned with operations, adjutants with administration.

JJM

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valkyrie
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by valkyrie » 10 Jan 2009 21:18

Very useful info - thankyou

Colin

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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by JockCampbell41 » 11 Jan 2009 06:17

Hi jjmcgr, would you have a picture of the GSO collar tabs/litzen? Not really sure how you mean they'd look like GSO collar tabs as opposed to the regular ones.

Thanks,
JC41

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valkyrie
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by valkyrie » 11 Jan 2009 17:09

Here' s a link to a dealer listing for the actual uniform of executed resister Oberst i.G. Alexis von Roenne.

http://www.huesken.com/cgi-bin/cat-art- ... ng=e&kat=1

You will see the carmine backing to the litzen in the photos. I tihnk this is what some of us were expecting for Cruise's Stauffenberg uniform. Before someone questions teh authenticity of the uniform, I have no reason to think that this uniform is anything but real as Huesken is a very reputable dealer that I have dealt with extensively.

Regards

Colin
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JockCampbell41
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by JockCampbell41 » 12 Jan 2009 11:14

Ahhh! I get it... yea, the regular collar tabs seem a bit thinner and have the waffenfarbe colours in the center of the two parallel bars or three waffenfarbe strips if completely backed by waffenfarbe.

The thing is, in Valkyrie, the GS officers seem to have the correct tabs but not with crimson backing, but rather the same colour cloth as the collar. I wonder if that was standard practice for workaday staff uniforms or if they should have gone with something like von Roenne's uniform. Sometimes they do change things for the sake of the art department or clarity but given the film's seeming commitment to accuracy as much as possible I don't see why they would have needed to change it, it's not something people will really notice.

Thanks Valkyrie!
JC41

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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by jjmcgr » 13 Jan 2009 01:01

The Roenne pictures show a DRESS GSO uniform, not the field version worn in most of Valkyrie. Cruise wore this uniform onbly in the Berchtesgaden scene. The field uniform differed in not having the branch color cloth under the collar tabs (also seen in the dress uniforms of other branches) and did not have the ceremonial cuffs on the sleeves of the tunic.

As is clear the collar tabs are different in form from those of non-GSO officers.

Roenne was either deliberately deceptive or incompetent in his job as Chief, Foreign Armies West. He fell completely for the Allied D-Day and post-D-Day deception plan.

JJM

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colt45
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by colt45 » 13 Jan 2009 01:41

he wore the light grey gaberdine tunic in the photo i have of him in a book and it was worn in the movie

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