Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

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JockCampbell41
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by JockCampbell41 » 13 Jan 2009 17:46

Thanks jjmcgr - finally, es ist klar :)

Salutes,
JC41

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bigun6605
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by bigun6605 » 15 Jan 2009 15:45

To: JJMCGR and anyone else.....

I really enjoyed the movie, even with the minor flubs, and I believe Cruise did a great job.
Let me ask you (or anyone else on the board for that matter) one question about the movie and one on the GS officers:

1) Specifically did you notice Tom Cruise's working uniform? It looked like it was dove gray, almost like a Luftwaffe uniform. I thought these GS officers wore their basic Heer uniform with the carmine stripes/waffenfarb and silver lapel badges. Or was there an actual color change for the basic General Staff (ig) uniform? Were there any other distinctions to this uniform, than these three?

(My initial thought was the Director did this so the audience could identify Cruise in a group scene of Heer officers).

Let me ask one basic question about the General Staff branch prior to/during WWII:

1) Do you know of any books, articles, links or other reference guides (English please) concerning this branch? Specifically I am looking for the academic course-work, staff assignments, uniform distinction, and GS duties during WWII? (I am not looking for very much am I?) I have read the book by Goerlitz, but now a little dated, as well as Dupuy's book "A Genius for War", and was wondering if there was a more current account.

Thank you in advance for any help. Based on your answers, it appears that you have an extensive knowledge of this field of officers, and I have found very little information myself.

Thank you again
Alan Cagle

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valkyrie
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by valkyrie » 15 Jan 2009 17:52

HI Alan:

Check out the attached well known photos incl. the famous July 15 photo of CvS at Wolfschanze. They clearly show he had a habit of wearing a lighter uniform jacket than that worn by many others and that it was often lighter than his trousers.

CvS had a reputation of being slightly dishevelled (per Hoffmann) and this was probably made worse by service in Africa, where all armies tended to cast dress regulations adrift as a sign of independence.

Re. part II of your question, Hoffmann's bio of Stauffenberg is useful as it provides generic and specific background on education, initiation to the GS, and duties once therein.

Colin
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valkyrie
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by valkyrie » 15 Jan 2009 22:43

Interesting new item that has appeared on Andre Huesken's site at http://www.huesken.com

KRAGENSPIEGEL für Offiziere des Generalstabes, zur Feldbluse in mattsilberner Kolbenstickerei or, in English, COLLAR inisgnia for officer of the general staff, for the field blouse in matte-silver 'piston' embroidery

I think this is what we saw in the film.

And I have included the dress version from the same site.

Colin
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bigun6605
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by bigun6605 » 16 Jan 2009 18:27

Hi Valkyrie....

Two questions on the two examples you show of the GS lapel insignia:
1) Are both those examples (field/dress) showing the same matte-silver 'piston' embroidery?
2) I see the carmine color on the dress lapel, but my screen appears to show the field lapel color as black. Is this the true color for the field uniform? My screen is old and colors are difficult.

Thank you
Alan Cagle

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bigun6605
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by bigun6605 » 16 Jan 2009 18:30

Colin...

Sorry I missed your name the first time. Yes, I will obtain Hoffman's bio of CvS and review his schooling and life.

Thanks again
Alan

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valkyrie
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by valkyrie » 16 Jan 2009 19:02

The first collar patch would be on very dark green cloth (akin to 'rifle green' for anyone who watches Sharpe). Both woudl be tarnished silver braid of varying quality.

Colin

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bigun6605
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by bigun6605 » 16 Jan 2009 22:04

Colin...

Thanks. So I assume that they way ig officer's were identified in a field uniform was the silver-matte 'piston' lapel? The carmine was the dress uniform waffenfarbe. Also in the movie Cruise had carmine stripes on his trouser legs while he was with 10th Pz in Tunisia. Would this be correct?

Thanks
Al

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valkyrie
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by valkyrie » 17 Jan 2009 00:25

Sorry Al - I am no uniform expert. I just found these collar patches ona dealer site and they tie in with earlier views here re. dress vs. field blouse. Anyone know whether crimson stripes would be worn on Africa dress breeches for an i.G. officer?

Colin

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Pax Melmacia
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by Pax Melmacia » 21 Jan 2009 05:17

Gents, have a heart, it's not being shown in the UK until late next month!
The ads haven't even come out yet here in the Philippines. There was a poster in one of our theaters briefly, but it disappeared when the local film festival arrived, or as I like to call it, the Garbage Scow. The poster space was then filled with the one for the coming Star Trek movie showing a Vulcan's face, an odd juxtaposition from Cruise's features which had occupied the space.

I think reading these bloopers is fine; now I'll know what to look out for.

JockCampbell41
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by JockCampbell41 » 21 Jan 2009 12:23

Were Cruise's trousers striped in Africa? I thought only Bernard Hill's were.

jjmcgr
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by jjmcgr » 19 Feb 2009 17:55

Technically, a GSO would wear the elements of the GS branch on the tropical uniform including the stripes on the pants. However, in pictures of GSOs in Africa, the stripes are sometimes missing from the pants.

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Pax Melmacia
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by Pax Melmacia » 22 Feb 2009 06:40

I think it's notable that though inaccurate, they were using not one but two Ju-52s in apparently working condition. Where'd they get those? (I guess there were no more CASAs/He-111s). Wouldn't they look cool in a Fallschirmjäger movie?

I'm not sure, but all the Berlin Watch units seemed to be wearing jackboots. I would have used short boots/gaiters for that time.

I'm surprised no one noticed the biggest mistake of all. Now I'm wondering if I could be the one who is mistaken. IIRC, the briefcase was not moved from one side of that flimsy table leg to the other, as shown in the movie. If that had been the case, Hitler might very well have perished. But if the old Ballantine books are accurate, the 'leg' was not just that wooden frame like in the film, but a solid plinth of heavy wood. KvS had lain his briefcase at approximately the five o'clock position relative to the plinth. (Hitler was about directly to the left of the bomb and exposed.) When vS had left an officer had moved the bomb forward so that it now lay against the plinth in the three o'clock position, with the thick wood between it and its target.

I also wonder how many unfamiliar viewers noted that piano wires had been used for the hanging. The scene was a bit dark.

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Pax Melmacia
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by Pax Melmacia » 14 Mar 2009 03:53

keyboard set-up on typewriters shown in scenes have modern/english set -up.
Too, the 'printouts' (those strips of paper reeling out of the typewriters) used English rendition of German spelling. For instance, Walkürie was spelt as Walkuerie. Well, at least they're consistent.

Michael Dorosh
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Re: Valkyrie movie flubs/mistakes.

Post by Michael Dorosh » 14 Mar 2009 04:00

Pax Melmacia wrote:
keyboard set-up on typewriters shown in scenes have modern/english set -up.
Too, the 'printouts' (those strips of paper reeling out of the typewriters) used English rendition of German spelling. For instance, Walkürie was spelt as Walkuerie. Well, at least they're consistent.
Are you convinced that German teletype machines all had umlauts in the printout?

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