Worst War Movies?

Discussions on WW2 and pre-WW2 related movies, games, military art and other fiction.
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Trebissky
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Post by Trebissky » 15 Mar 2003 04:30

Sgt. Reese wrote:whats everyone's view on "to hell and back" and "hell is for heros"?

"To Hell and Back" was basically the true story of how Audie Murphy won his Medal of Honor. Since he starred in it, as himself, I'd guess it's pretty close to what really happend...

As for "Hell Is For Heroes", if memory serves, that's the one with Clint Walker, Nick Adams, and Bob Newhart, among others, trying to hold an abandoned bunker by themselves, right? Hmm. :?

On the other hand, I think that's where Newhart got his "talking to no one on the phone" shtick, which has served him well for all this time.

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Post by Trebissky » 15 Mar 2003 04:54

CHRISCHA wrote:I have been considering this thread a bit more lately. To sum up my feelings, I'm glad films are made of the WW2 (especially) and other periods for entertainment and it's a form of remberence, although I'm not niave enough to think this is why movie producers make them. I find it fustrating to see inaccurate films, be it a German soldier having the wrong haircut (SPR), or current armoured vehicles portrayed as Panthers. Both take away some of the viewing pleasures as I inwardly correct the mistakes rather than concerntrating on the film and I make mental notes of things I want to check later. When one mistake is identified I'm almost on the look out for more to mumble to myself about. I find it dispicable when films are made with little or no regard for historical accuracy, when the option to change history to make some money is employed. I find this a total disrespect to the vetrans and those killed in the setting portrayed. These are the films I wish were never produced. The likes of Kelly's heroes etc. are for entertainment, and in a way I would rather watch a film such as this that is quite tongue in cheek than a serious film that is unsuccesful at attempting to portray reality.

I have to agree with a lot of that. Sure, most people wouldn't notice let alone care that this guy's uniform has the wrong patches on it or whatever. But when you DO, it can almost ruin the whole movie because now you're sitting there watching for how many OTHER goofs it has instead of following the story.

I have to say one thing. They definitely ARE making a lot better imitation panzers, etc., lately. The strange thing is, back when at least some of the CORRECT vehicles were still around and operational, the films still had whatever the Army used right now, standing in for them. Such as all the M-47 "King Tiger" tanks in Battle of the Bulge, and the Leopard version in A Bridge Too Far.

SPR had some pretty good mockups of Tigers on T-34's, in fact I think they're the same ones from Kelly's Heroes. They also used them in Band Of Brothers, on HBO. SPR also had what looked like REAL Marder SP guns, on WW2 Czech 38-T chassis, along with the T-34/Tigers. B.O.B. had several OTHER mocked up panzers, including a "Jagdpanther" on a T-72 (?) that would be hard to tell from the real thing. The only giveaways I could see were the tracks and road wheels. Same goes for the "Pzkw III's" in Enemy At The Gates. (Which I think could have done well without the love triangle, BTW)

But when the story's supposed to be about an actual event, such as Bridge Too Far, Bulge, etc., and the director thinks it'd be neat if they did THIS instead... nah. Give me The Longest Day, any time.

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Post by CHRISCHA » 15 Mar 2003 11:44

Very fair comments. It is obviously difficult if not impossible to put a real Tiger 2 in a mock combat situation, but when producers make a real effort it certainlty adds to the film. Another twist on the worst WW2 film is if the film portrays a period of the war one has studied, is intrested in or was in yourself (refering to watching war films with my Grandad as a kid), you become more critical. I used to think 'A Bridge To Far' was an excellent film (and still do to an extent ), but since going to Eindhoven, Nijmegan and especially Arnhem and the relevant museums there, there are parts of the film I would now question. The bridge has obviously been rebuilt post war, and the new bridge is the one in the film. This is totaly exusable. :D I think ABTF does pass a lot of respect to the soldiers who fought in operation Market Garden, unlike Pearl Harbour, U571, etc. A lot of the unbeleivable events in the film are actually the true parts, it's the detail that is wrong. I suppose my last point is it is now difficult to compare pre-Saving Private Ryan films with this film, as the D-Day scene is a lot more realistic of combat than was ever shown before, (I wasn't at the D-day landings, so is my opinion), so when you see someone killed and no wound is noticable, it seems less real. BTW, in SPR the sound of rounds hitting soldiers was made by firing the correct weapon at the required distance into a pig carcuss!

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Post by Sgt. Reese » 15 Mar 2003 11:53

Sgt. Reese wrote:
whats everyone's view on "to hell and back" and "hell is for heros"?

"To Hell and Back" was basically the true story of how Audie Murphy won his Medal of Honor. Since he starred in it, as himself, I'd guess it's pretty close to what really happend...

As for "Hell Is For Heroes", if memory serves, that's the one with Clint Walker, Nick Adams, and Bob Newhart, among others, trying to hold an abandoned bunker by themselves, right? Hmm."

Friend I didn't ask what they were about I asked what were people views on them. and you missed the main character of "hell is for heros" Steve McQueen!!


Trebissky:
I saw "Raid On Rommel" and "Tobruk" very much the same, another one that I thought had the same kinds of shots was "The Desert Rats"

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Post by Maple 01 » 15 Mar 2003 12:09

I used to think 'A Bridge To Far' was an excellent film (and still do to an extent ), but since going to Eindhoven, Nijmegan and especially Arnhem and the relevant museums there, there are parts of the film I would now question. The bridge has obviously been rebuilt post war, and the new bridge is the one in the film. This is totaly exusable.


Yes, it's a good film, 'After the Battle' magazine did a big feature on the film a while back which may still be available. The production team took over a small Dutch town up the road from Arnheim to do most of the fighting scenes, the bridge is the town bridge rather than the rebuilt Jonnie Frost one - If you are interested in the battle have a look-out for a copy of 'Theirs is the Glory' made on location in 1946 with the real survivors and the German armour that was still lying about. The acting's terrible but what do you expect from a bunch of paras? Also a lot of scenes that seen far-fetched are included and played out by the guys who actually witnessed them – the only inaccurate scene is in the barrack block in the UK when they talk of the dead and missing while looking over empty beds – those mentioned were alive– but I think we can let them off that piece of dramatisisation.


Regards


-Nick

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Post by CHRISCHA » 15 Mar 2003 12:09

I saw 'To Hell and Back' and thought what a load of bollocks. I then read a ten page article about Audie Murphey, and regretted my previous opinion. He was an out an out modest hero, even though he was driven by hatred. I do have one thought though. He was obviously a simple man, thoughts, actions, background, etc. Was he promoted to Liutenant because he was a capable leader or because he won so many medals? Apparently in the film, he had to stop the filming at one point because it was to realistic and took him back. Might be a good publicity line though.

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Post by Maple 01 » 15 Mar 2003 16:12

The town in Holland that doubled for Arnheim in the film 'A bridge too far' was Daventer

I've got a list of the vehicles used during filming if anyone's interested

Regards


-Nick

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Post by Trebissky » 16 Mar 2003 03:49

Sgt. Reese wrote:Sgt. Reese wrote:
whats everyone's view on "to hell and back" and "hell is for heros"?

"To Hell and Back" was basically the true story of how Audie Murphy won his Medal of Honor. Since he starred in it, as himself, I'd guess it's pretty close to what really happened...
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I saw that again not very long ago, and with the understanding that it was made just a few years after Murphy did the same things for real, I thought and still think it's one of the better war movies. :wink:
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As for "Hell Is For Heroes", if memory serves, that's the one with Clint Walker, Nick Adams, and Bob Newhart, among others, trying to hold an abandoned bunker by themselves, right? Hmm."

Friend I didn't ask what they were about I asked what were people views on them. and you missed the main character of "hell is for heros" Steve McQueen!!
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You're right, he was in it, too. So was Bobby Darin, or was that Fabian? Or both? I was describing it to MYSELF, mostly, to remember which one it was... ahem. :D
-------------------

Trebissky:
I saw "Raid On Rommel" and "Tobruk" very much the same, another one that I thought had the same kinds of shots was "The Desert Rats"

I'm not sure that's the same as the other two. I keep picturing Victor Mature and maybe four other guys trying to sneak back thru Afrika Korps lines on foot. Somewhere along the way they swipe a (Centurion) panzer and drive it back to base.

But I may be thinking of still another one... :)

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Post by CHRISCHA » 16 Mar 2003 10:22

Maple 01, I would be intrested if you posted a list of the vehicles used in A Bridge To Far. I wasn't aware there was a film of the Arnhem battle made so close to the end of WW2. No-one could complain about authenticity of the soldiers portrayed.

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Post by Trebissky » 16 Mar 2003 21:24

CHRISCHA wrote:Maple 01, I would be intrested if you posted a list of the vehicles used in A Bridge To Far. I wasn't aware there was a film of the Arnhem battle made so close to the end of WW2. No-one could complain about authenticity of the soldiers portrayed.
I can help with that a bit.

Interesting enough, the BRITISH had actual WW2 vehicles, including Firefly Shermans with 17-pounder guns, Bren carriers, M3 halftracks, etc.

The Germans, on the other hand, were running around in various not-that-well-mocked-up vehicles that were in use by the BUNDESWEHR at the time the film was made, and the "Tiger" tanks were Leopard 1's. The only modifications to those that I could see were an all-gray paint job (NOT in use any more, by 1944!) and the removal of the bore evacuator from the main gun tube. :roll:

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Post by Maple 01 » 16 Mar 2003 22:48

Trebissky,

I think the two films are getting mixed up, 'Theirs is the Glory' was made in 1946 and includes:

French Renault Char B
Two Panthers, one a 'runner' (an Ausf D)
A Tiger 1
A Hetzer
SdKfz 234
PzIV
King Tiger

'A Bridge Too Far' used

Horsch staff car
2 Merc staff cars
Citroen staff car
2 Schwimmwagens
4 Kubelwagens
5 Kubelwagen replicas
Kettenkraftrad
Assorted BMW/Zundap motorcycles
Krauss-Maffei half track
Demag half track
Hanomag replica
Hanomag (expendable) (??!)
Hotchkis Brant/Marder 2
2 replica 6 wheeled armoured cars
2 replica 4 wheeled armoured cars
Bussing-NAG 5 ton truck
German Ford 3 ton truck
Auto union personnel carrier
Opel Blitz ambulance

PAK 35
PAK 50
2 80mm field guns (?)
3 80mm replica (?)
Nebelwerfer
4 Leopard tanks
4 AMX self propelled guns
Assorted period trucks, busses etc

Regards


-Nick

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Post by scuberd » 16 Mar 2003 22:53

If you think WW2 movies are bad, then don't study about medieval movies. most weapons and armor are completely inaccurate sometimes 1000's of years off, like the gladiator helmet in 13th warrior. Furthermore, the fighting is horrible, anyone with any idea of how to fight could kick as$ on any medieval movie battlefield.

And I thought Thin Red Line and Pearl Harbor were a disgrace to the men who fought and died on those islands

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Post by Maple 01 » 16 Mar 2003 23:10

I watched Pearl Harbour at the Cinema and thought it was Ok, but I just checked it out on DVD, what a pile of poo!

The Battle of Britain scene is a joke, for a start there were eight Americans who fought in the B of B for real, and their stories are well known so why try and introduce another for the benefit of a crummy film?

The R/T procedures are crap, and pilots had to wear their oxygen masks to transmit in the RAF at that time, except in films it seems, when the 'star' obviously needs to be seen at all times! And his lines! Straight out of a Marvel comic. And the sickly lines put into the mouth of the groundcrew guy – didn’t they employ any military advisers that were around at the time?

The computer generated battle scene was pants - looks like the researchers just played 'Combat flight sim' for a while rather that doing any work.

Ohhhh. I'm so mad I could stamp my feet!

'Battle of Britain' might have had a poor 'romantic interest' plot but at least the flying was great - there are no excuses -earlier flying films have managed to be more credible and less syrupy on smaller budgets and with less technology available – what a waste

Regards

-Nick

Sulking because I’ve wasted £16 on that heap of…….

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Post by CHRISCHA » 16 Mar 2003 23:13

Thanks for the info' on vehicles used in the two Market Garden films Maple 01 and Trebissky. I'm going to be on the lookout for 'Theirs is the Glory'. Kind regards Chris.

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Post by CHRISCHA » 16 Mar 2003 23:13

Thanks for the info' on vehicles used in the two Market Garden films Maple 01 and Trebissky. I'm going to be on the lookout for 'Theirs is the Glory'. Kind regards Chris.

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