Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Discussions on WW2 and pre-WW2 related movies, games, military art and other fiction.
Amnesia
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 01 Aug 2013 20:00

Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Amnesia » 02 Feb 2014 12:20

Hello! I'm here for I do not know where to put this thread on the internet and I have experienced a great deal of kindness and professionalism on this forum that I have yet to find elsewhere. I Come here today for I wish to ask this community of a task; a task I alone cannot accomplish but together it is possible. I want to make a Video game in the Future and I wish it to include 'Traditional' [Non-Flamethrowing etc.] Italian Tanks along with many other Nation's Tanks; although as for now I'm focusing on Italian Tanks. My Task I ask of the Community is this:
Help Find All Possible Historic And Semi-Historic 'Traditional Warfare' Italian Tanks and Provide a Post with the Name and or Informative Details about the Tank(s) you have found and or know of and wish to Share to/with Me and the Community.

Here are the Requirements of said "All Possible Historic And Semi-Historic 'Traditional Warfare' Italian Tanks"

Italian = Any Tank that was Operated, Serviced, Possessed and or Processed by any member of any armed force that served the near or 'official' 'leadership' of the Italian Nation [an Armed force that Served for Italy no matter if their 'group' ran for or were a part of the Italian Government.] Even if it means said Armed Force pulling a Non-Italian Tank out of a ditch in an Italian 'Battle Zone' [A 'Battle Zone' being a place where said Italian Armed Force having fought.]* Note: The German Army does not Count for they Served for Germany and not Italy; only an Armed Force Serving for the Italian Nation Counts.

Tank = Any Historic and or Semi Historic Tracked or Possibly Tracked Fighting Vehicle that Served or Could have Served the Above said Italian Armed Force(s).

Semi-Historic = Combining Relevant Historical Components together upon a Historical Project and or Object in a Fictional but Practical way that could have been used to Possibly Further the Intent of Relevant Controlling/Leading Political Figures. e.g. a P.26/40 with a Pz.Kpfw. IV Vereinfachter Turm Mounted along with Bolting 30mm and 20mm of Face Hardened Applique Armour Plates onto the Front and Sides of the Hull Respectively. As to 'continue' the theme of Feature Coping from other Successful Foreign Tank Designs (T-34's Sloped Armour for Example) via coping 'Easy'-To-Manufacture 'Modern' and 'Retro' Pz.Kpfw. IV Upgrades.

Content Recommendation for Contributing Posts:

A.) Do not be afraid of others' opinions; So oh well if you are 'wrong' at least you contributed and were not non-contributing.
B.) Any Photos, Source Links, Specifications, Design Intent(s) and or any Key Details as to the Tank's Existence; Including but not Limited to Creative Intent, Historic/Political Relevance and or Basically Why? (All Relevant for Semi-Historical Tanks Also).
C.) Tank History (Historic or Fictional is Welcome [But No Mixing 'Fiction' into Historic Truths/Facts Please]).

Here is a Pre-Pre-Alpha Italian 'Tech Tree' I have been Working at. [Note: Yes it looks like World of Tanks Hence Pre-Pre-Alpha]
Unfinished Pre-Pre-Alpha Unfinished Italian Tech-Tree Cropped.png
This Picture Was Made on LibreOffice where it takes 12 minutes and 40 second to create/load a 50x 40 Table and another 5 minutes to load a Black Background and and other for 5 minutes for Red Boarders. Also the picture you see is work of Splicing together 8 failed +9 Successful close up Screenshots of said LibreOffice Table via Paint. Also the Table you see is the 'Successful' Version hosted on LibreOffice, after the Original Version hosted on Word became too slow to operate and could not produce the table size required.

You may Have Noticed Non-Historic/Semi-Historic Tanks Within my Tech Tree, yes I included Tanks that could have been Captured by the Italians during World War Two, Namely some British Tanks. I Was influenced by the Mod called Roma Victor for the Turn Based World War Two Strategy Video Game Named: Panzer Corps. The Said Mod is where it expands upon the Italian Campaign within Panzer Corps and allows the Player to Command the Italian Armed Forces to Conquer More Than Historic Areas and Capture more Than Historic Types of Tanks. Thus any Possible 'Logical' World War Two 'What If' is Fair Game to use as a Suggestion. Even 'Fictional' Future 'What If' Variants of Existing Tanks and or Possible Non-Historic Captured Tank Upgrades are Fair Game. I'm looking for any Logically Well Thought Out Historic and or Semi-Historic Italian Tank Design from 1900 to 1980.

Thank You For Your Time Spent Reading My Post.

With the Best of Intentions:

Within Amnesia
_______________________________________________________________________________________
"Spite and Assumption only Lead to Paths of Self-Inflicted Blight and Destruction" Within Amnesia -2013
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Amnesia on 03 Feb 2014 05:40, edited 6 times in total.

Amnesia
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 01 Aug 2013 20:00

Re: Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Amnesia » 02 Feb 2014 18:11

*Future Place Holder*

Amnesia
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 01 Aug 2013 20:00

Re: Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Amnesia » 06 Feb 2014 15:54

My Italian Tech Tree Is Expanding Every Now and Then On My DeviantART Account Here:
http://withinamnesia.deviantart.com/gallery/48025170

Have Fun and Take Care Friends!

User avatar
Christian Ankerstjerne
Forum Staff
Posts: 13418
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 14:07
Location: Denmark

Re: Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 07 Feb 2014 00:45

I've moved this to the World Wars in Fiction section, which I believe is better suited.

I think I have a general idea of what you're trying to accomplish, but the details are not all too clear.

Two relatively inexpensive books which I would recommend for you are Osprey New Vanguard 191 and 195, dealing with Italy's light and medium tanks, respectively, prior to and during the Second World War. Some tanks which I couldn't find were:
  • Fiat-Ansaldo 5 t (light tank)
  • OF-40 (medium tank)
  • Semovente M42 (tank destroyer)
  • Palmaria 155 mm (self-propelled howitzer)
In regards to your method, it soulds like the software you're using is less than optimal for the purpose. I would suggest using a spreadsheet for the table, and use arrows to show the tree.

User avatar
Ironmachine
Member
Posts: 5168
Joined: 07 Jul 2005 10:50
Location: Spain

Re: Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Ironmachine » 07 Feb 2014 08:36

If you really want to cover the 1900-1980 time span, then you should include the Schneider CA and the Renault FT 17. I have seen different opinions about how many of them arrived in Italy, but it seems clear that both models did arrive. For example, from Osprey Men-at-Arms 387 The Italian Army of World War I:
[...]in 1917 a Schneider arrived from France for trials. Impressed, the Italian Army asked for more, but these were unavailable. Instead, in summer 1918, Italy received a few Renault light tanks as the nucleus of a new force. This was formed only in the last month of the war, equipped with the Renault FT 17 with a Girod turret[...]

User avatar
Ironmachine
Member
Posts: 5168
Joined: 07 Jul 2005 10:50
Location: Spain

Re: Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Ironmachine » 07 Feb 2014 09:07

Also, during the Spanish Civil War the "Raggruppamento Carristi" of the CTV had a "sección" of "Russian tanks". Depending on the sources I know, it had either 3 or 5 T-26 tanks. The sources that talk about 5 T-26 mention that 3 of them were destroyed in combat and replaced with 2 BT-5 tank, but I don't know how accurate is that last statement (considering, for example, the small number of BT-5s available). On the other hand, a BT-5 was sent to Italy (and tested by Ansaldo IIRC). So I think the T-26 is a "sure thing" while whether you accept the BT-5 or not is up to you (unless it was captured and reused on the Eastern Front during WWII).

User avatar
Ironmachine
Member
Posts: 5168
Joined: 07 Jul 2005 10:50
Location: Spain

Re: Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Ironmachine » 07 Feb 2014 09:16

And this I had posted in another thread; it is in French and Italian but should not be too dificult to understand:
En 1942, l’ARMIR captura une quantité assez importante de véhicules, à savoir 14 chars et 2 automitrailleuses selon l’article de Vincent Greenwood paru dans le Tankette 34/5 de 1999, intitulé Red Panzers for the Mare Nostrum. Parmi eux, le plus « médiatisé » fut le T-34/76 B (en fait un T34/76 STZ, produit par la fabrique de tracteurs de Stalingrad) employé comme véhicule de commandement par le LII° Gruppo du 120° Reggimento d’Artiglieria de la 3ª Divisione Celere durant l’été 1942.
In 1942, l’ARMIR robeva molti veicoli: 14 carri, 2 automitragliatrici secondo l’articolo di Vincent Greenwood apparito nel Tankette 34/5 di 1999, di cui il nome è: Red Panzers for the Mare Nostrum. Il carro più conosciuto fu il T.34/76 utilizzato come veicolo di commando dal LII° gruppo del 120° Reggimento d’Artiglieria della 3a divisione celere durante l’estato 1942.
Un second T-34, de la première variante cette fois (76/A), fut récupéré par les Allemands et envoyé en Italie en 1941, dans un centre d’étude, pour subir plusieurs évaluations qui permettront d’améliorer le futur P40.
Un secondo T-34, della prima variante questa volta (76A) ; fu recuperato dai tedeschi e mandato in Italia in 1941 in un centro di studio per avere molte valutazioni che permettranno di migliorare il futuro P40.
Parmi les véhicules capturés et réemployés par les italiens, on peut citer quelques BT-7M, un T-60 (au moins), un T-70 et un char amphibie T-37. Mais il n’y eut pas uniquement des véhicules blindés d’origine russe, puisqu’une photo atteste de la capture d’un M3 Grant américain en URSS, qui ne fut cependant pas, a priori, réutilisé.
Fra I veicoli rubati e utilizzati dagli italiani, possiamo citare alcuni BT-7M, un T-60 (almeno) un T-70 e un carro anfibio T-37. Ma non ci ebbe soltanto veicoli blindati di nascita russa, poiché una foto mostra la cattura di un M3 Grant americano in URSS che non fu, a priori, riusato.
The source was: http://www.italie1935-45.com/RE/histoir ... eurss.html

Amnesia
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 01 Aug 2013 20:00

Re: Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Amnesia » 22 Feb 2014 21:43

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:I've moved this to the World Wars in Fiction section, which I believe is better suited.

I think I have a general idea of what you're trying to accomplish, but the details are not all too clear.

Two relatively inexpensive books which I would recommend for you are Osprey New Vanguard 191 and 195, dealing with Italy's light and medium tanks, respectively, prior to and during the Second World War. Some tanks which I couldn't find were:
  • Fiat-Ansaldo 5 t (light tank)
  • OF-40 (medium tank)
  • Semovente M42 (tank destroyer)
  • Palmaria 155 mm (self-propelled howitzer)
In regards to your method, it soulds like the software you're using is less than optimal for the purpose. I would suggest using a spreadsheet for the table, and use arrows to show the tree.
Well Thank You! [Thread Moving and also Content Contribution] That was about five times more supportive than all of the World of Tanks NA Forum Comments for all of my Threads Combined.

Thanks for the Specifics, it goes Ten Times farther than Generalities. I will look up those Books!

As for my Goal or 'Intent' with this post, I'm just looking for inspiration for other 'Italian' Tanks [Semi-Historic or Not] that I might have missed in my 'travels' or maybe someone knows of a Semi-Historic or even Fictional tank Design that is just to 'cool' to pass on. An example of such a 'to-cool-pass' tank would be the 'Video Game Panzer' E-79 from Panzer Front [and the other 'player' tanks on the game].
e79128h5fi.jpg
http://withinamnesia.deviantart.com/art ... 1393102999
[Link: Pre-Pre Alpha German Medium High Tier Tech Tree Progression Concept with the E-79 at Tier 10].

P.S. My Software Problem is more or less solved; I had a 99.9% full Computer Hard Drive and I was Filling up an External Hard Drive. After I moved around 16 GB of Content from my Computer Hard Drive to my External Hard Drive my Computer could work a bit faster, then I Also did a Virus Scan and it is 'fine' now. I should learn How to use other programs regardless though.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Amnesia on 22 Feb 2014 22:42, edited 1 time in total.

Amnesia
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 01 Aug 2013 20:00

Re: Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Amnesia » 22 Feb 2014 22:27

Ironmachine wrote:If you really want to cover the 1900-1980 time span, then you should include the Schneider CA and the Renault FT 17. I have seen different opinions about how many of them arrived in Italy, but it seems clear that both models did arrive. For example, from Osprey Men-at-Arms 387 The Italian Army of World War I:
[...]in 1917 a Schneider arrived from France for trials. Impressed, the Italian Army asked for more, but these were unavailable. Instead, in summer 1918, Italy received a few Renault light tanks as the nucleus of a new force. This was formed only in the last month of the war, equipped with the Renault FT 17 with a Girod turret[...]
By Jove! Amazing! I will add them immediately. Thank You Very much! *Added to Tech Tree as Premium Tier 1s [Schneider = Tank Destroyer]*

Amnesia
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 01 Aug 2013 20:00

Re: Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Amnesia » 22 Feb 2014 22:38

Ironmachine wrote:Also, during the Spanish Civil War the "Raggruppamento Carristi" of the CTV had a "sección" of "Russian tanks". Depending on the sources I know, it had either 3 or 5 T-26 tanks. The sources that talk about 5 T-26 mention that 3 of them were destroyed in combat and replaced with 2 BT-5 tank, but I don't know how accurate is that last statement (considering, for example, the small number of BT-5s available). On the other hand, a BT-5 was sent to Italy (and tested by Ansaldo IIRC). So I think the T-26 is a "sure thing" while whether you accept the BT-5 or not is up to you (unless it was captured and reused on the Eastern Front during WWII).
Thank You! To be Honest I feel that my/our 'Internet Tanks' could greatly benefit in Community from filling a gaping niche of 'What-If' Tanks (e.g. Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf. K). With that said I hope my Perspective is 'Translated' more or less.

So in short I will add the 'Fringe' Controversial Tanks with the Preference of Honest Game Experience > War Recreation; while still keeping the Tanks as realistic to their 'Historic' or similar Tanks as Possible.

Post = My Perspective as to Why: I will add both the BT-5 and T-26.

Thank You Ironmachine!

Amnesia
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 01 Aug 2013 20:00

Re: Finding All Possible Italian Tanks From 1900 to 1980

Post by Amnesia » 22 Feb 2014 23:09

Ironmachine wrote:And this I had posted in another thread; it is in French and Italian but should not be too dificult to understand:
En 1942, l’ARMIR captura une quantité assez importante de véhicules, à savoir 14 chars et 2 automitrailleuses selon l’article de Vincent Greenwood paru dans le Tankette 34/5 de 1999, intitulé Red Panzers for the Mare Nostrum. Parmi eux, le plus « médiatisé » fut le T-34/76 B (en fait un T34/76 STZ, produit par la fabrique de tracteurs de Stalingrad) employé comme véhicule de commandement par le LII° Gruppo du 120° Reggimento d’Artiglieria de la 3ª Divisione Celere durant l’été 1942.
In 1942, l’ARMIR robeva molti veicoli: 14 carri, 2 automitragliatrici secondo l’articolo di Vincent Greenwood apparito nel Tankette 34/5 di 1999, di cui il nome è: Red Panzers for the Mare Nostrum. Il carro più conosciuto fu il T.34/76 utilizzato come veicolo di commando dal LII° gruppo del 120° Reggimento d’Artiglieria della 3a divisione celere durante l’estato 1942.
Un second T-34, de la première variante cette fois (76/A), fut récupéré par les Allemands et envoyé en Italie en 1941, dans un centre d’étude, pour subir plusieurs évaluations qui permettront d’améliorer le futur P40.
Un secondo T-34, della prima variante questa volta (76A) ; fu recuperato dai tedeschi e mandato in Italia in 1941 in un centro di studio per avere molte valutazioni che permettranno di migliorare il futuro P40.
Parmi les véhicules capturés et réemployés par les italiens, on peut citer quelques BT-7M, un T-60 (au moins), un T-70 et un char amphibie T-37. Mais il n’y eut pas uniquement des véhicules blindés d’origine russe, puisqu’une photo atteste de la capture d’un M3 Grant américain en URSS, qui ne fut cependant pas, a priori, réutilisé.
Fra I veicoli rubati e utilizzati dagli italiani, possiamo citare alcuni BT-7M, un T-60 (almeno) un T-70 e un carro anfibio T-37. Ma non ci ebbe soltanto veicoli blindati di nascita russa, poiché una foto mostra la cattura di un M3 Grant americano in URSS che non fu, a priori, riusato.
The source was: http://www.italie1935-45.com/RE/histoir ... eurss.html
Thank You Again! I will 'Translate' this For the all of the Non-French Readers [This includes myself to a Major Degree.]

Google Translate Says: [It is also a Firefox Add-On]
"In 1942, the ARMIR captured a sizeable amount of vehicles, namely 14 tanks and armored cars under Article 2 of Vincent Greenwood appeared in Tankette 34/5 1999 , entitled Red Panzers for the Mare Nostrum. Among them, the "mediated " was the B T-34/76 (actually a T34/76 STZ produced by the tractor factory in Stalingrad ) used as a command vehicle by LII ° Gruppo of 120 ° Reggimento of Artiglieria of 3 ª Divisione Celere summer 1942.
In 1942, the ARMIR Robeva molti veicoli : 14 career 2 automitragliatrici articolo di secondo the Vincent Greenwood apparito nel Tankette 34/5 1999 di , di cui nome è it : Panzers for the Red Mare Nostrum. It carro fu più conosciuto it T.34/76 utilizzato come veicolo commando di dal gruppo del LII ° to 120 ° Reggimento Artiglieria della 3a divisione celere durante the estato 1942.
A second T-34 , the first variant this time (76 / A ) was recovered by the Germans and sent to Italy in 1941, in a study center , to undergo several assessments that will improve the future P40 .
Secondo a T-34 , questa volta della prima variant ( 76A ) recuperato fu dai tedeschi e mandato in Italia in 1941 in a centro di studio per avere molte valutazioni permettranno che il futuro di migliorare P40 .
Among the captured and reused by Italian vehicles include some BT- 7M, T -60 (at least) , a T-70 and T-37 amphibious tank . But there was no only armored vehicles of Russian origin, since a picture attests to the capture of an American M3 Grant in the USSR , which was not, however , a priori, reused.
Fra I veicoli rubati e utilizzati dagli italiani , possiamo citare alcuni BT- 7M, T -60 ( almeno ) T -70 amphibious carro e a T -37. My non ci ebbe soltanto veicoli blindati di nascita russa , poiché una foto di mostra the cattura an M3 Grant in USSR americano che fu not , a priori, riusato ."

Tanks Added as Premium (Could Change):
Tier 1.) T-37A (R)
Tier 2.) T-60 (R)
Tier 3.) T-70 (R), BT-7M (R)

Tank Name Changes:
Tier 5.) "T-34/75 (R)" to "T-34/75 STZ (R)"

Possible Tank Line:
2.) T-60 (R) -> 3.) [T-70 (R) + BT-7M (R)] -> 4.) M5 Stuart (LL) -> 5.) T-34 (R) -> 6.) T-34/85 (R)

Return to “Movies, games & other fiction”