Denial. The film dealing with David Irving vs. Penguin.

Discussions on WW2 and pre-WW2 related movies, games, military art and other fiction.
Felix C
Member
Posts: 888
Joined: 04 Jul 2007 16:25
Location: Miami, Fl

Denial. The film dealing with David Irving vs. Penguin.

Post by Felix C » 08 Dec 2018 01:41

Saw it today on cable. Do not know how accurate the depiction. Appeared excessively simplified to fit the narrative.
Irving came across as an arrogant enigma who certainly twisted information.

Never read any of Irving's work other the PQ and Rommel books.(which did not touch on the Holocaust) That was in the late 70s. Presume when his standing was good.

Do not know how Hollywoodized the film was. Some of the errors or deceptions committed by Irving appear childishly simplistic.

The film is about as good as an average TV movie in decades gone by. Do not know what it was made.

novotnycurse
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 15 May 2017 14:38
Location: Stamford

Re: Denial. The film dealing with David Irving vs. Penguin.

Post by novotnycurse » 03 Feb 2019 23:50

Well, the casting was questionable.
The 'ugly' Timothy Spall came across as an irritating buffoon - the villain of the piece.
In contrast, the 'beautiful' Rachel Weisz seemed sensible and saintly - the heroine.
David Hare, known as a left-wing playwright, was clearly unsympathetic to Irving, the right-wing historian.
In the actual trial, there is a hilarious moment when Irving , accused of racism, denies this and says he has often employed people from different ethnic backgrounds and turns the question around by asking why the Penguin legal team are all white. The Judge, an establishment chap, does not accept this kind of reasoning !

User avatar
von thoma
Member
Posts: 4275
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 03:40
Location: Spain

Re: Denial. The film dealing with David Irving vs. Penguin.

Post by von thoma » 04 Feb 2019 23:00

Consequences of Holocaust denial on Irving's face...

DavidIrving.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

Hanny
Banned
Posts: 855
Joined: 26 Oct 2008 20:40

Re: Denial. The film dealing with David Irving vs. Penguin.

Post by Hanny » 08 Feb 2019 12:25

"Without Hitler, the State of Israel probably would not exist today. To that extent he was probably the Jews' greatest friend". D Irving

the reason he said that is because as he also said," I have no academic qualifications whatsoever".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/denia ... -on-trial/ preview of the film in the link, well worth anyones time to watch imo.
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Trilisser, M. A.
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 11 Oct 2018 20:39
Location: Pohjois-Savo

Re: Denial. The film dealing with David Irving vs. Penguin.

Post by Trilisser, M. A. » 28 Mar 2019 04:51

Haven't seen the film and likely that I will not waste my time on it, but the whole case is funny for I would love to see similar "scrutiny" done on say John Erickson who some people seem to hail while one described him "the pet of Krasnaja Zvezda".

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 4750
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: Denial. The film dealing with David Irving vs. Penguin.

Post by wm » 28 Mar 2019 09:14

Is he still denying today? I think I've read somewhere he's not.

The "would not exist today" is defendable.
Under the Haavara Agreement between the Nazis and Jewish groups 60,000 German Jews, their wealth, and $630,000,000 worth of goods (in today's money) were transferred from Germany to Palestine - building the financial backbone of Jewish Palestine.
Later the Germans proposed another agreement, which would allow emigration of all Germans Jews but it was rejected.

Still Hitler wasn't even the Jews' "smallest" friend.

User avatar
HistPolity
Member
Posts: 31
Joined: 15 Sep 2011 20:21
Location: United States

Re: Denial. The film dealing with David Irving vs. Penguin.

Post by HistPolity » 29 Jun 2019 13:55

I just watched the film the other weekend, while the casting and storyline bias was questionable, it did raise some interesting questions.

1) Does anyone know why Irving started to engage in Holocaust denial, from a professional and monetary standpoint it has cost him dearly. Especially considering he used to be a highly regarded historian, i.e. I remember reading people like John Keegan, Michael Howard etc. having high praise for him from the 1960s to early 80s.

2) His embrace of fringe theories like this is also perplexing considering his earlier works like Rommel: On the Trail of the Fox acknowledges the crimes of the Reich.

3) Are Irving's works still considered legitimate sources? As he did a lot of cutting edge primary source research.

User avatar
Sheldrake
Member
Posts: 2211
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 17:14
Location: London

Re: Denial. The film dealing with David Irving vs. Penguin.

Post by Sheldrake » 29 Jun 2019 22:13

Trilisser, M. A. wrote:
28 Mar 2019 04:51
Haven't seen the film and likely that I will not waste my time on it, but the whole case is funny for I would love to see similar "scrutiny" done on say John Erickson who some people seem to hail while one described him "the pet of Krasnaja Zvezda".
Do you mean the author of Road to Stalingrad and Road to Berlin? If so he was part of a panel discussion on the development of doctrine by the Soviet and German forces. I had tyhe pleasure of sitting next to him at dinner in the RA Mess Larkhill. If that is the man, why does he deserve comparison with Irving?

Rickshaw_665
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 15 Oct 2019 10:13
Location: Adelaide

Re: Denial. The film dealing with David Irving vs. Penguin.

Post by Rickshaw_665 » 16 Oct 2019 12:35

I once saw/heard Irving speak, way back in 1986 on his last visit to Australia. He was invited by the History Department of the University which I was studying at to speak about his book about Belgrade '56. He spent most of the lecture speaking about the Jewish conspiracy, his hatred of Jews and his belief that Roosevelt was a Jewish stooge. The man was the closest I have ever encountered to an old style Nazi. He deserved to lose the court case IMO.

Return to “Movies, games & other fiction”