"Cross of Iron" question

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JodelFlieger
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Post by JodelFlieger » 26 Jan 2008 18:06

Hi there
I have read that the movie was made with the full co-operation of the local army, including the hire of the T-34s, the MG42s and all the infantry weapons and even an artillery barrage to churn up the ground! I agree with the previous comments about the realistic quality of the film, especially real T-34s and not just dressed-up M-47s. Even the scenes where men were killed were much more graphic and bloody than the sanitised "killings" in a lot of the 1960s big war films, adding to the general air of reality about the film.
regards
JF

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askropp
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by askropp » 08 Oct 2013 23:59

I always wondered why many Anglo-Saxon viewers are making such a fuss about that idiotic "How do I reload?" scene. Apart from the fact that no one could have become a Wehrmacht Fähnrich, let alone a Hauptmann with several years of war service, without not only learning how to reload, but also how to dismantle and reassemble any kind of infantry weapon, the audience actually has seen Stransky load his MP only a few minutes earlier, when he had the opportunity to shoot Steiner but chose to accept his challenge instead. In the German language version, Maximilian Schell says "Ich muß nachladen" (I have to reload) instead of "How do I reload?" This makes much more sense - of course Stransky technically knows how to reload his weapon (just as he knows how to wear a Stahlhelm), but he is so nervous and frightened that he becomes too clumsy and shaky to perform even familiar actions and is unable to handle his gun (and his helmet).
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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von thoma
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by von thoma » 10 Oct 2013 07:15

I never understand the "Cult" to this Peckinpah film.
Demarcation ! Demarcation ! :?
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

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Sheldrake
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by Sheldrake » 10 Oct 2013 12:05

askropp wrote:I always wondered why many Anglo-Saxon viewers are making such a fuss about that idiotic "How do I reload?" scene. Apart from the fact that no one could have become a Wehrmacht Fähnrich, let alone a Hauptmann with several years of war service, without not only learning how to reload, but also how to dismantle and reassemble any kind of infantry weapon, the audience actually has seen Stransky load his MP only a few minutes earlier, when he had the opportunity to shoot Steiner but chose to accept his challenge instead. In the German language version, Maximilian Schell says "Ich muß nachladen" (I have to reload) instead of "How do I reload?" This makes much more sense - of course Stransky technically knows how to reload his weapon (just as he knows how to wear a Stahlhelm), but he is so nervous and frightened that he becomes too clumsy and shaky to perform even familiar actions and is unable to handle his gun (and his helmet).
Either indicates poor drills!

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Fliegende Untertasse
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by Fliegende Untertasse » 10 Oct 2013 12:36

askropp wrote:I always wondered why many Anglo-Saxon viewers are making such a fuss about that idiotic "How do I reload?" scene. Apart from the fact that no one could have become a Wehrmacht Fähnrich, let alone a Hauptmann with several years of war service, without not only learning how to reload, but also how to dismantle and reassemble any kind of infantry weapon,
Wasn't the whole point that Stransky was an older reserve officer who had only been in staff duty.
He had arranged himself to frontline to quickly score some medals before war is over.

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B Hellqvist
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by B Hellqvist » 10 Oct 2013 19:36

Fliegende Untertasse wrote:
askropp wrote:I always wondered why many Anglo-Saxon viewers are making such a fuss about that idiotic "How do I reload?" scene. Apart from the fact that no one could have become a Wehrmacht Fähnrich, let alone a Hauptmann with several years of war service, without not only learning how to reload, but also how to dismantle and reassemble any kind of infantry weapon,
Wasn't the whole point that Stransky was an older reserve officer who had only been in staff duty.
He had arranged himself to frontline to quickly score some medals before war is over.
Yes, in Willi Heinrich's novel, he comes across as older than the youngish Stransky played by Schell, 50-ish or so, and probably not trained on the MP.
Last edited by B Hellqvist on 10 Oct 2013 19:42, edited 1 time in total.

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B Hellqvist
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by B Hellqvist » 10 Oct 2013 19:42

von thoma wrote:I never understand the "Cult" to this Peckinpah film.
Demarcation ! Demarcation ! :?
Well, it was one of the first major war movies to show the Germans as some sort of protagonists. It was also unusual, compared to the usual run of war movies, to have plenty of period equipment. For us older (middle-aged) war movie buffs, this was a movie that was an eye-opener. I saw it about five years after the premiere, right in the middle of my Sven Hassel obsession, and it put pictures to the kind of stories Hassel wrote. Younger viewers are probably not as impressed, as it is too "odd" for the average viewer of today.

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askropp
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by askropp » 10 Oct 2013 19:59

Demarcation ! Demarcation !
What does that mean? A quote? Who says it?
he comes across as older than the youngish Stransky played by Schell
Schell was 45 when the movie was shot. If Stransky was 45 or older, this would mean he must have served in WW1, making his inexperience even harder to explain. A reserve officer aged 35-40 would maybe fit best.
my Sven Hassel obsession
I heard of this guy the first time when I was reading this thread a few days ago. No one in Germany seems to know him. From what I read about him, it may well be he was a fake. It is also hard to explain why some dubious writers with an open Nazi background (like Franz Kurowski, Paul "Carell" Schmidt, Hans von Luck etc.) are so popular in the US and some other countries. I wouldn't use their scribblings to wipe my ***. Willi Heinrich may be not much better, but at least he was less apologetic.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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von thoma
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by von thoma » 11 Oct 2013 02:18

Demarcation ! Demarcation !

What does that mean? A quote? Who says it?
When Steiner returns to his own lines, they shout : We're Germans ! Steiner ! We're coming in !
Demarcation ! Demarcation !
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

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askropp
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by askropp » 12 Oct 2013 00:00

I always thought my English was pretty good ... but what is that supposed to mean? I know what a demarcation line is, but why would anyone shout this? There is nothing like that in the German text.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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von thoma
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by von thoma » 12 Oct 2013 03:04

but why would anyone shout this?
Demarcation.
It's a password to agree not to open fire on them, but Lt. Triebig violates it, and shoots by Stransky's orders..
There is nothing like that in the German text.
Curious.
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

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askropp
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by askropp » 12 Oct 2013 14:16

So that was the password that had been agreed earlier between Stransky and Steiner?! A very bad choice! In the German version, the password was "Donauwalzer".
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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askropp
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by askropp » 18 Oct 2013 22:49

I wonder if anyone knows who played the part of Gefreiter Hollerbach? Unlike Steiner, Krüger, Reisenauer ("Schnurrbart"), Anselm, Maag, Dietz, Zoll and Kern, he is not credited, although he has considerable text and screentime. Maybe another Yugoslav actor, like Igor Galo?
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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G. Trifkovic
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by G. Trifkovic » 19 Oct 2013 00:28

askropp wrote:I wonder if anyone knows who played the part of Gefreiter Hollerbach? Unlike Steiner, Krüger, Reisenauer ("Schnurrbart"), Anselm, Maag, Dietz, Zoll and Kern, he is not credited, although he has considerable text and screentime. Maybe another Yugoslav actor, like Igor Galo?
Not sure about Hollerbach, but the other day I recognized another Yugoslav actor in the movie: Vladan Zivkovic played Stransky's wireless operator.

Cheers,

G.

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askropp
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Re: "Cross of Iron" question

Post by askropp » 19 Oct 2013 12:17

IMDb is listing several Yugoslav actors who participated in "Cross of Iron", but without their role names. From what I was able to find out, the following seems to be the case:

Igor Galo - Leutnant Meyer
Slavko Stimac - Michail (Soviet boy soldier)
Ivica Pajer - Gefreiter Hollerbach
Hermina Pipinic - Soviet female officer
Dragomir Stanojevic - ?
Nedim Prohic - ?
Demeter Bitenc - Hauptmann Pucher (Stransky's replacement)
Vladan Zivkovic - Stransky's wireless operator

Maybe someone can find out which roles were played by Stanojevic and Prohic?
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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