Best War Movie Ever

Discussions on WW2 and pre-WW2 related movies, games, military art and other fiction.
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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by Ivan Ž. » 13 Jun 2023 07:33

ShindenKai wrote:
13 Jun 2023 06:49
Ivan Ž. wrote:
18 May 2020 12:08
But right after the landing scene was over and those US troopers killed the surrendering Germans, making a joke about it, which Spielberg obviously (and disgracefully) intended as a relief-moment, half of the crowd started laughing (letting the steam off, from the previous scene). That's why I don't go to the cinema anymore; the audience often ruins the whole experience.
"A moment of relief"? To simpletons perhaps. The "surrendering Germans" were actually Czech conscripts.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/B-213YxngAM

Spielberg clearly did his homework. Nothing disgraceful about it, both sides committed atrocities during WW2. It was meant to illustrate the horrors of war. Even though I didn't know what they were saying at the time there was no "relief". The "moment of relief" was when Upham kills the German that killed Mellish. How'd you miss that? I saw SPR in theater TWICE, none of what you described the audience doing happened during either of my viewings. The end of SPR brought a heavy silence, followed by a respectful standing ovation, both times.
I really have no intention of arguing over a movie or anything else. I mentioned what was worth mentioning, replying to a member who mentioned the audience laughing during the beach landing scene. Please read more carefully before reacting: viewtopic.php?p=2269105#p2269105

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Ivan

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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by LineDoggie » 13 Jun 2023 18:52

Ivan Ž. wrote:
18 May 2020 12:08


When I was watching "Saving Private Ryan" in 1998, no one was laughing during the beach landing scene, there was a dead silence in the cinema. The moment with soldier picking up his hand in shock was particularly memorable, provoking anything but laughter. But right after the landing scene was over and those US troopers killed the surrendering Germans, making a joke about it, which Spielberg obviously (and disgracefully) intended as a relief-moment, half of the crowd started laughing (letting the steam off, from the previous scene). That's why I don't go to the cinema anymore; the audience often ruins the whole experience.

Cheers,
Ivan
Things like that happened in real life

also If you remember in the Longest day film Tommy Sands shoots Germans coming out of a bunker yelling ''Bitte, bitte'' with a thompson, turns to his wounded comrade Robert Wagner and asks ''whats Bitte, bitte mean?''
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by Ivan Ž. » 13 Jun 2023 19:33

Yes, all kinds of things happened and still happen in real life. But that has nothing to do with outdated cliché propaganda Spielberg likes to include in his movies, needlessly grinding them to a level they don't deserve and making them average, or worse, instead of great. But, as I wrote before, he's still a splendid director whose work I largely very much like despite anything I may dislike.

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Ivan

LineDoggie
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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by LineDoggie » 13 Jun 2023 23:07

Ivan Ž. wrote:
13 Jun 2023 19:33
Yes, all kinds of things happened and still happen in real life. But that has nothing to do with outdated clichés Spielberg likes to include in his movies, needlessly grinding them to a level they don't deserve and making them average, or worse, instead of great. But, as I wrote before, he's still a splendid director whose work I largely very much like despite anything I may dislike.

Cheers,
Ivan
Films like ''Come and See'' are entirely Clichés more akin to the propaganda films of ww2 like "The North Star" with Evil ''Natzis'' draining blood from children for wounded Natzis
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 14 Jun 2023 02:54

Each persons opinion on the best has many caveats. I like The Great Escape, Where Eagles Dare, Bridge on the River Kwai,but each of these IMO has flaws and weird drama,etc. As for any movie that is factual and true to history, there aint no such flick ever made. have to remember a movis is fantsay

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by Ivan Ž. » 14 Jun 2023 07:47

Dear LineDoggie, there's no need nor point in dragging in and trying to unjustly discredit an incomparable masterpiece in order to defend a movie that needed no defending in the first place, having enough qualities itself, which have already been listed by the very person you're replying to.

Dear Mark, I enjoyed those movies too, although they're not from the same category as those I'd consider best from the WWII genre (theme). When football legend Pelé died half a year ago, I remembered another oldish WWII-themed movie that I liked: Escape to Victory. The scene with the German officer (von Sydow) applauding the enemy's (Pelé's) goal has always been a favourite of mine.

Cheers,
Ivan

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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by LineDoggie » 14 Jun 2023 19:06

Ivan Ž. wrote:
14 Jun 2023 07:47
Dear LineDoggie, there's no need nor point in dragging in and trying to unjustly discredit an incomparable masterpiece

Its not a masterpiece that needs defending its a retro propaganda film from the 40's era with all the cliches inherent in such tripe. there was no way in the Soviet era a reasonable balanced film by a director under the soviet thumb could be made.
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by Ivan Ž. » 14 Jun 2023 20:47

Dear LineDoggie, you completely misunderstood my message, the same as you misunderstood Come and See, which, judging by your comments, it appears you haven't even watched, or were simply unable to understand, obvious lack of knowledge on the subject of the movie aside. In any case, I wish you all the best and many more movies that would fit your taste better in the future.

Cheers,
Ivan

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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by J. Duncan » 20 Jun 2023 17:50

I saw “Come and See” recently. I found it memorable but quite sad and depressing. It’s hard to describe - is it “war porn”? The weird backwards montage at the end as he shoots at the puddle (and how he’s aged and worn out) was haunting. Was that a “ Dirlewanger” character? The man with the strange marsupial pet?

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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jun 2023 22:18

Hello, J.

The village massacre scene is the most realistic portrayal of what many of the German/Axis punitive expeditions in Slavic countries looked like, especially those executed by paramilitary forces. And the movie itself is a rare and fantastically skilful portrayal of what the war actually is, leaving the viewer with a feeling of heavy distress - however without showing graphic violence, although the viewer has an illusion of seeing it (best directors avoided showing graphic horror, but hinted it instead, leaving to the viewer's imagination to do the rest of the job).

The SS leader's character - and his unit - were indeed based on Dirlewanger and his men (see the "in fiction" section here; see also this article). Incidentally, the actor who played the SS leader in the movie used to be an SS man in real life (see this thread).

Cheers,
Ivan

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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by J. Duncan » 21 Jun 2023 10:38

Thanks Ivan for context and the links. No doubt, as stated, it is a haunting film from the first scene - the old man warning the kids not to dig up the weapons, the lone surveillance plane warning of horrible things to come, the kids lost/ murdered mother and sister, flies, dead bodies, the cow, the arbitrariness of terror ( “Dirlewanger” grabbing the kid for a photo op but not blowing his brains out) , not to mention the burning barn and the gang raped girl. The main character seems autistic stumbling through the horror. It’s an incredible snapshot of how terrible things were - and can become in any war actually.

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Re: Best War Movie Ever

Post by LineDoggie » 27 Jun 2023 18:31

Haven't read through most of this, but some I consider "Best" (doesn't have to be technically perfect to the last messtin). These are not ranked in any order-

These also are not blowhard puffery propaganda pieces

"Gettysburg" (1993)
Not only stays faithful to the real battle, but gives insight(s) to the thought processes of the various commanders

"The Cruel Sea"
Royal Navy ASW ships and crew in the battle of the Atlantic.

"The 9th Company"(2005)
Soviet VDV conscripts in Afghanistan

"Isoroku" aka ''Rengō Kantai Shirei Chōkan Yamamoto Isoroku'' (2011)
Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto from pre Pearl Harbor to his death. An earlier work with Toshiro Mifune (1968)was also very well done

"the Gallant Hours" (1960)
Admiral Halsey and Admiral Yamamoto during the Battle of Guadalcanal. More a drama of personalities than a Battle movie

"Unknown Soldier" (2017 version)
Finnish Soldiers heroic fight against the Soviets
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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