Hungarian Nobility / Royalty? Croatian?

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ArmchairSamurai
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Hungarian Nobility / Royalty? Croatian?

Post by ArmchairSamurai » 01 Feb 2023 06:47

Hello all!

Been a stretch since I had last been on here. I have a question for those of you here since my knowledge of the inner-workings of the AHE is a bit lacking, to say the least, and perhaps one of you could point me in the right direction. Did the Hungarians have any royal / noble line of their own while part of the AHE under the Habsburgs? It is my understanding that after the 1867 compromise, the once solely dominated Habsburg Austria became a dual monarchy, and yet, I never hear of any monarchy from Hungary--unless that was in name only. About the only major Hungarian noble I know of is Count Gyula Andrássy. In addition, if Trialism had succeeded, and Croatia gained a seat with Austria and Hungary in erecting a Tripartite Empire, what nobility/royalty did Croatia-Slovania have to contribute? I realize there was an Imperial Council, whereby the minority kingdoms had their seats, but that is not to say there were not any royalty/nobility at all besides Austria's--right? Thoughts? :?
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waldopepper
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Re: Hungarian Nobility / Royalty? Croatian?

Post by waldopepper » 01 Feb 2023 22:17

The Kingdom of Hungary existed until 1918. Since the sixteenth century, however, the Hapsburgs had been Kings of Hungary as well as ruers of Austria and other minor possessions. The Hapsburg KIng of Hungary abdicated the Hungarian throne as a result of the Revolution of 1848 and no successor was appointed.

The Compromise of 1867 created the the entity called the Dual Monarchy. The term "dual monarchy" does not mean that there were two rulers, one for Austria and another for Hungary. It means that one ruler (Franz Josef) was the monarch of both the Austrian Empire and the Kingdom of Hungary. Thus he was both Imperial and Royal: Imperial as Austrian Emperor and Royal as Hungarian King. In German "kaiserlich und königlich", abbreviated "k. u. k."

waldo

ArmchairSamurai
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Re: Hungarian Nobility / Royalty? Croatian?

Post by ArmchairSamurai » 03 Feb 2023 07:28

waldopepper wrote:
01 Feb 2023 22:17
The Kingdom of Hungary existed until 1918. Since the sixteenth century, however, the Hapsburgs had been Kings of Hungary as well as ruers of Austria and other minor possessions. The Hapsburg KIng of Hungary abdicated the Hungarian throne as a result of the Revolution of 1848 and no successor was appointed.

The Compromise of 1867 created the the entity called the Dual Monarchy. The term "dual monarchy" does not mean that there were two rulers, one for Austria and another for Hungary. It means that one ruler (Franz Josef) was the monarch of both the Austrian Empire and the Kingdom of Hungary. Thus he was both Imperial and Royal: Imperial as Austrian Emperor and Royal as Hungarian King. In German "kaiserlich und königlich", abbreviated "k. u. k."

waldo


I understand what you're telling me. So no Hungarian family line, something that predates Austrian rule perhaps but was subject to it until the AHE's collapse, existed at all? Are you telling me there were no Hungarian princes, dukes, marquesses, earls, viscounts, barons, nothing at all? Andrassy was a count; was that title superficial? That seems odd.
There are three sorts of people; those who are alive, those who are dead, and those who are at sea.

waldopepper
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Re: Hungarian Nobility / Royalty? Croatian?

Post by waldopepper » 04 Feb 2023 00:09

My post was silent on the Hungarian aristocracy. As to that I expect that the Hungarian aristocracy continued to exist even though the King was Hapsburg.

Husar1914
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Re: Hungarian Nobility / Royalty? Croatian?

Post by Husar1914 » 26 Mar 2023 17:46

The history of the Hungarian nobility from the beginning of the Arpadhazi dynasty to the end of the Titular Monarchy in 1944 is very complex.

For those of you who are seriously interested in this subject, here is a comprehensive article on the subject.

(For those of you who do not read Hungarian, I would suggest Google-Translate.)

LINK: http://tortenelemcikkek.hu/node/297

Peter89
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Re: Hungarian Nobility / Royalty? Croatian?

Post by Peter89 » 28 Mar 2023 09:49

ArmchairSamurai wrote:
01 Feb 2023 06:47
Hello all!

Been a stretch since I had last been on here. I have a question for those of you here since my knowledge of the inner-workings of the AHE is a bit lacking, to say the least, and perhaps one of you could point me in the right direction. Did the Hungarians have any royal / noble line of their own while part of the AHE under the Habsburgs? It is my understanding that after the 1867 compromise, the once solely dominated Habsburg Austria became a dual monarchy, and yet, I never hear of any monarchy from Hungary--unless that was in name only. About the only major Hungarian noble I know of is Count Gyula Andrássy. In addition, if Trialism had succeeded, and Croatia gained a seat with Austria and Hungary in erecting a Tripartite Empire, what nobility/royalty did Croatia-Slovania have to contribute? I realize there was an Imperial Council, whereby the minority kingdoms had their seats, but that is not to say there were not any royalty/nobility at all besides Austria's--right? Thoughts? :?
To answer your question: the original Hungarian royal family died out in 1301, and thereafter kings from various royal or noble families were elected as kings (Anjous, Habsburgs, Jagiellonians, etc.) up until 1526, when the king II. Lajos died in the Battle of Mohács. In that year, Transsylvania became semi-independent, about a third of the country became occupied by the Turks, and the remaining parts had Ferdinand I. as their king (who was brother-in-law of Lajos, hence the claim).

The Trialism aimed to elevate the Czechs, and not the Croats, to the level of Austrians and Hungarians. The Croats btw signed their own Compromise in 1868 with Hungary, Croatia was effectively ran independently from Hungary in most affairs.

If Trialism was formed, then the Czechs got executive powers over many internal affairs such as the Hungarians, and more positions in the imperial hierarchy.

The other concept was that of Popovici, which was much more realistic and way less oppressive than that of the Trialism.
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Balrog
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Re: Hungarian Nobility / Royalty? Croatian?

Post by Balrog » 28 Aug 2023 00:16

Peter89 wrote:
28 Mar 2023 09:49
ArmchairSamurai wrote:
01 Feb 2023 06:47
Hello all!

Been a stretch since I had last been on here. I have a question for those of you here since my knowledge of the inner-workings of the AHE is a bit lacking, to say the least, and perhaps one of you could point me in the right direction. Did the Hungarians have any royal / noble line of their own while part of the AHE under the Habsburgs? It is my understanding that after the 1867 compromise, the once solely dominated Habsburg Austria became a dual monarchy, and yet, I never hear of any monarchy from Hungary--unless that was in name only. About the only major Hungarian noble I know of is Count Gyula Andrássy. In addition, if Trialism had succeeded, and Croatia gained a seat with Austria and Hungary in erecting a Tripartite Empire, what nobility/royalty did Croatia-Slovania have to contribute? I realize there was an Imperial Council, whereby the minority kingdoms had their seats, but that is not to say there were not any royalty/nobility at all besides Austria's--right? Thoughts? :?
To answer your question: the original Hungarian royal family died out in 1301, and thereafter kings from various royal or noble families were elected as kings (Anjous, Habsburgs, Jagiellonians, etc.) up until 1526, when the king II. Lajos died in the Battle of Mohács. In that year, Transsylvania became semi-independent, about a third of the country became occupied by the Turks, and the remaining parts had Ferdinand I. as their king (who was brother-in-law of Lajos, hence the claim).

The Trialism aimed to elevate the Czechs, and not the Croats, to the level of Austrians and Hungarians. The Croats btw signed their own Compromise in 1868 with Hungary, Croatia was effectively ran independently from Hungary in most affairs.

If Trialism was formed, then the Czechs got executive powers over many internal affairs such as the Hungarians, and more positions in the imperial hierarchy.

The other concept was that of Popovici, which was much more realistic and way less oppressive than that of the Trialism.
Excellent post.

I read that Franz Josef was the King of Bohemia but had never been formally crowned and that was somehow made into an issue. The Czechs seemed to hold a lot of lofty positions in the empire, why were they so restless, or is that an exaggeration? The Czechs did well in the KuK military. I read that the Hungarians were disliked by the Croats because the Magyars interfered with Croatia. I read Franz Ferdinand had decided on federation, which Franz Josef hated.

Wasn't Trialism about appeasing the Croats?

P.S. Was the quote in your profile in reference to Hitler?

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