the plebiscites that were never held

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rob
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the plebiscites that were never held

Post by rob » 02 Apr 2003 17:09

In reading about the Carinthinian plebiscite of 1919 or 1920, I forget which year, the article I read mentioned that the Austrian government requested plebsicites to be held in other areas, the South Tyrol, Slovenia, and at least some of the Sudetenland. I don't know if they requested plebiscites for all of the Sudetenland as that would create a truly whacky looking border, but I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about the Austrian requests and exactly what territories they wanted votes in. I believe they would have won in south tyrol and the Sudetenland, but doubtfull about Slovenia.

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sLOVEne
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Re: the plebiscites that were never held

Post by sLOVEne » 20 Apr 2003 20:07

rob wrote:In reading about the Carinthinian plebiscite of 1919 or 1920, I forget which year, the article I read mentioned that the Austrian government requested plebsicites to be held in other areas, the South Tyrol, Slovenia, and at least some of the Sudetenland. I don't know if they requested plebiscites for all of the Sudetenland as that would create a truly whacky looking border, but I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about the Austrian requests and exactly what territories they wanted votes in. I believe they would have won in south tyrol and the Sudetenland, but doubtfull about Slovenia.


I only read your post today, just by accident. I’m doubtful that you’ll check this, but just in case. Did you find anything interesting when reading the plebiscite / referendum that was done Carinthia? Did it mention anything about the propaganda that Vienna made to persuade the Slovenian majority in Carinthia and Styria to vote to join Austria. I know that the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes by the Slovenians in Carinthia and Styria was seen as something primitive, violent and savage – reminding them of the Turks so they rather chose to be a part of Austria.

Jon Sutton
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Post by Jon Sutton » 21 Apr 2003 18:57

There was another plebiscite held between Dec 14th and Dec 21st 1921 to determine whether the extreme western portion of what had been Hungary should become part of Austria. I recall reading somewhere that the pro-Austrian party bussed in anyone they could find in Austria who had been born in that area and was therefore entitled to vote, but the city of Sopron voted to remain part of Hungary and was given the title of "Civis Fidelissima" - most loyal city - by the Hungarians.
It always seems to me to be somewhat unfair that the Hungarians, who lost far more of their lands under the Treaty of Trianon than the Austrians, should lose more to the Austrians. That said, I acknowledge that the treatment of the non-Hungarians in the Hungarian lands left a great deal to be desired and one can hardly blame the Slovaks etc. for wanting to get out from under Hungarian rule.

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Basileios
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Post by Basileios » 01 May 2003 20:10

Jon Sutton wrote: I recall reading somewhere that the pro-Austrian party bussed in anyone they could find in Austria who had been born in that area and was therefore entitled to vote, but the city of Sopron voted to remain part of Hungary and was given the title of "Civis Fidelissima" - most loyal city - by the Hungarians.


In fact the opposite is true. It was the Hungarians who bussed in people, this way they managed to to have a majority in favour of Hungary in the city of Ödenburg, which became Sopron. The rest of the disputed area, then called Deutsch-Südwestungarn, voted for Austria and became the Burgenland.

Here are 2 pictures from both sides of the propaganda war before the plebiscite:

Austrian propaganda poster:
Image

Hungarian propaganda poster:
Image

Ken
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Post by Ken » 13 May 2003 05:08

Hmm.. that's strange.. why is the Hungarian poster in German?

And can you please write down what the Austrian one says (in German)? I can't read it at all (I speak German)..

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Basileios
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Post by Basileios » 15 May 2003 21:09

The the great majority of the population in that area had German as its mother tongue. So if the Hungarians wanted to convince them of voting for Hungary, they had to do that in German.

The Austrian poster says this:
Trauet nicht den schmeichelnden Liedern! Stimmt deutsch!

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