Uniform Help!

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KKND
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Posts: 18
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 09:00

Uniform Help!

Post by KKND » 02 Aug 2014 22:16

Hi! i posted this in the uniform section and was told i could maybe get more information here. Below is a photo of my great grandfather in 1942-44 in Vrbas (part of Hungry at the time). He was the equivalent of chief of police and i need help getting an ID on the uniform he is wearing. I was told in the uniform section it is a Austro-Hungarian military uniform and was wondering if anyone would be able to narrow it down.

Photo 1 (1942ish)
Image

Photo 2 (1944)
Image

Before i asked in the uniform section i expected it too be a police uniform rather than a Austro-Hungarian military uniform as it is different from the uniform he had during WW1 and the ranks are different as well. In the years before this photo he wears a completely different uniform which looks more like a police uniform, so maybe he changed to this uniform after Hungry took control of that part of Yugoslavia?
Thanks!

GregSingh
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Uniform Help!

Post by GregSingh » 05 Aug 2014 13:09

Although covered buttons tunic, sabre and collar patch are similar to those of Austro-Hungarian era uniform, considering photos were taken during 1942-44, clearly it is not an Austro-Hungarian servicemen.

I had a look into works of Sándor ZEIDLER and József PARÁDI and it seems it is an uniform of Royal Hungarian Police (Magyar Királyi Rendőrség), not to confuse with Royal Hungarian Gendarmerie, which had different uniforms and collar patches (military style).
1942.jpg
1944.jpg
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If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

KKND
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Posts: 18
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 09:00

Re: Uniform Help!

Post by KKND » 05 Aug 2014 19:57

Thanks! that makes sense. You mention Zeidler and Paradi, im guessing these are authors who have written on the subject, any recommended reading in English language?

history1
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Location: Austria

Re: Uniform Help!

Post by history1 » 07 Aug 2014 10:01

Something doesn´t fit here, IMO.

KKND wrote "He was the equivalent of chief of police". I assume the Chief of Police is at least an officer, right?
But the ranks "Őrmester" and "Főtörzsőrmester" are only the NCO ranks "Sergeant" and "Sergeant First Class" (at least in the hungarian army, couldn´t find a rank poster of former police ranks online: https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendfokoz ... dfokozatai)
On the other hand I wonder also about the letter " õ " which doesn´t occure in Hungarian and is used in the book instead the propper "Ő".

KKND
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Posts: 18
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 09:00

Re: Uniform Help!

Post by KKND » 07 Aug 2014 15:18

Hi,from family we know he was what in english would be a chief of police, and there is a first hand account translated to english of some killings in the area which refer to him as been chief of police. I guess been a sergeant does seem a little low for somone who was in charge of a town (and the fact he has been in the police ever since the end of ww1) but i know next to nothing about civilian police in hungary between 42-45 so i guess it could be possible.

Old Prohaska
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Re: Uniform Help!

Post by Old Prohaska » 11 Aug 2014 18:22

Whatever the uniform, it is clear from the medals that he served in the Austro-Hungarian forces during World War I, as the first three medals from L to R are the Bronze Bravery Medal (looks bronze, but possibly the Siver Bravery Medal II Class), the Eisernen Verdienstkreuz and the Karl Truppenkreuz.

-OP

KKND
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Joined: 01 Sep 2012 09:00

Re: Uniform Help!

Post by KKND » 13 Aug 2014 20:09

Hi OP

Yes he served in the Austro-Hungarian forces for the entire first world war. He was on the Italian front from 1915 until the end of war and for some of that time he served as a medic in a mountain division.

The medals from L to R are Bravery Medal, Merit Cross, Karl Troop Cross, Hungarian Commemorative, Balkan Mobilization Cross, Tyrol Commemorative, then Austrian, German and Bulgarian Commemorative medals. Unfortunately the medals are lost, probably destroyed in 1944 after he was executed so all i have is the photos of them.

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