Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

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Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by Futurist » 24 Dec 2015 00:19

Does anyone here know of any free articles about Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary if he would have lived and become the Austro-Hungarian Emperor?

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by Futurist » 29 Dec 2015 07:58

Indeed, are there any free sources of information that I can read about this topic?

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by Futurist » 18 Apr 2016 07:21

@stg 44: Any thoughts and/or information on this question of mine? :)

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by Balrog » 18 Apr 2016 17:15

From what I read he planned to extend the compromise of 1867 to other/all ethnic groups in the Empire: autonomy for the Croats, the Italians, the Czechs, the Slovenes,the Bosnians, etc. Franz Josef I confided to one of his daughters that he was relieved by the death of Franz Ferdinand. Franz Josef I thought that Franz Ferdinand was a dangerous liberal.

The Italian historian Leo Valiani wrote of Franz Ferdinand:

"...when he ascended the throne, he intended to re-establish strong central government: this objective, he believed, could be attained only by the simultaneous granting of far-reaching administrative autonomy to all the nationalities of the monarchy. In a letter of February 1, 1913, to Berchtold, the Foreign Minister, in which he gave his reasons for not wanting war with Serbia, the Archduke said that "irredentism in our country ... will cease immediately if our Slavs are given a comfortable, fair and good life" instead of being trampled on (as they were being trampled on by the Hungarians). It must have been this which caused Berchtold, in a character sketch of Francis Ferdinand written ten years after his death, to say that, if he had succeeded to the throne, he would have tried to replace the dual system by a supranational federation."

The Serbs wanted to stop Franz Ferdinand granting autonomy to the Slavs so they assassinated him. Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf (and here I am paraphrasing) that the best friend of the Slavs was cut down down by Slav fanatics-I think Hitler failed to see the true motives of the Serbs: The Serbs murdered the Archduke because his reforms would have given Slavs a high degree of autonomy that could have easily undermined Serbia's Pan Slavism.

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by yaro » 19 Jun 2016 15:56

I doubt he would have been able to push through that plan. He was a dreamer.

His decision to marry unqeually at that time was scandalous. His children would not have inherited the throne. Franz Joseph only approved the marriage with this condition. It was expected that Franz Ferdinand would reconsider given such unacceptable terms, but he didn't. As a result he was a future emperor that nobody wanted, only a "temporary" problem.

There would be little support for the autonomy in either half of the empire, since both Austrians and Hungarians were strongly opposed, as was nobility.

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by thezerech » 18 Dec 2016 01:02

yaro wrote:I doubt he would have been able to push through that plan. He was a dreamer.

His decision to marry unqeually at that time was scandalous. His children would not have inherited the throne. Franz Joseph only approved the marriage with this condition. It was expected that Franz Ferdinand would reconsider given such unacceptable terms, but he didn't. As a result he was a future emperor that nobody wanted, only a "temporary" problem.

There would be little support for the autonomy in either half of the empire, since both Austrians and Hungarians were strongly opposed, as was nobility.
Yes, but the Slavs would be emphatically behind this plan. Recall only ~40% of the Kingdom of Hungary was actually Hungarian. He would in an instant appease the Czechs, Ukrainians, Poles, Croats, Slovaks, even Serbs. Slavs were a plurality of the Empire (IIRC), not Germano-Austrians or Hungarians.

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by pugsville » 18 Dec 2016 08:56

thezerech wrote: Yes, but the Slavs would be emphatically behind this plan. Recall only ~40% of the Kingdom of Hungary was actually Hungarian. He would in an instant appease the Czechs, Ukrainians, Poles, Croats, Slovaks, even Serbs. Slavs were a plurality of the Empire (IIRC), not Germano-Austrians or Hungarians.
Slavs would be emphatically behind this. nope. Nationalism is pretty effective virus.

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by thezerech » 21 Dec 2016 23:58

pugsville wrote:
thezerech wrote: Yes, but the Slavs would be emphatically behind this plan. Recall only ~40% of the Kingdom of Hungary was actually Hungarian. He would in an instant appease the Czechs, Ukrainians, Poles, Croats, Slovaks, even Serbs. Slavs were a plurality of the Empire (IIRC), not Germano-Austrians or Hungarians.
Slavs would be emphatically behind this. nope. Nationalism is pretty effective virus.
Certainly not all Slavs but certainly a significant majority of Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Croatians, and Slovenians. Aswell as many Serbs, Poles, and in all likelihood many Germans who resented Hungary's control and sabotage of the Empire.

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by Futurist » 24 Aug 2020 04:17

thezerech wrote:
21 Dec 2016 23:58
pugsville wrote:
thezerech wrote: Yes, but the Slavs would be emphatically behind this plan. Recall only ~40% of the Kingdom of Hungary was actually Hungarian. He would in an instant appease the Czechs, Ukrainians, Poles, Croats, Slovaks, even Serbs. Slavs were a plurality of the Empire (IIRC), not Germano-Austrians or Hungarians.
Slavs would be emphatically behind this. nope. Nationalism is pretty effective virus.
Certainly not all Slavs but certainly a significant majority of Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Croatians, and Slovenians. Aswell as many Serbs, Poles, and in all likelihood many Germans who resented Hungary's control and sabotage of the Empire.
Such a plan might be a step down for the Germans since it would result in their territories becoming non-contiguous or only barely contiguous, no? Ditto for the Poles, who are going to lose eastern Galicia to the Ukrainians. The other groups might support this plan, however.

I do have a question, though--as a legal matter, did Franz Ferdinand actually have the power to stop Hungary from refusing to renew the Ausgleich in 1917?

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by Nodeo-Franvier » 22 Dec 2020 16:17

It unfortunate that federation plan was not done in the Golden year of 1867 due to certain character such as empress Elizabeth and von Beust.

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by Tucobenedito » 20 Mar 2022 16:44

There is fantastic book called THE SLEEPWALKERS- How Europe Went to War in 1914, by Christopher Clark.

He covers the internal machinations of the nations involved. Serbia, The Triple alliance and The Triple Entente being the main, but not sole, focus of the book. How internal politics and intrigue meant ministers in the same Government had different views and policies in international affairs. The medias role in whipping people into a war frenzy. It is a fantastic read. Fully referenced. If I remember correctly Clark is an Emeritus Professor of Modern History at Cambridge University.
I highly recommend this book.

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Re: Franz Ferdinand's plans for Austria-Hungary had he lived

Post by Peter89 » 23 Mar 2022 09:54

I believe it is much more simpler than that.

Right before World War I, there was an independent Romania, Serbia and Italy. These countries had such an appeal to the minorities in the Empire that there was little chance to offer them any political product that they would accept on the long run.

The Poles also wanted their own state, and while the majority of them lived under Russian or German rule, they definately never wanted to belong to the Empire.

The Croats felt kinship with the Serbs and other southern slavs, and even though they had effective autonomy in the Empire, they wanted to opt for the new state. They and the Slovenes were a maybe, because there were differing opinions about Croatia's future.

In reality, the Austrians, Hungarians, Czechs and Slovaks were the core nations of the Empire, and that is why Franz Ferdinand wanted to install them into power, while he tried to placate the rest of the minorities temporarly in order to give time for assimilation and emigration.
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