Please ID K.u.K. Oberst

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Rolf2
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Please ID K.u.K. Oberst

Post by Rolf2 » 22 Jul 2017 19:19

Hi, I have this General but can´t find who is he. Could you help, me, please?

Image

Many thanks

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Frech
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Re: Please ID K.u.K. General

Post by Frech » 24 Jul 2017 05:34

it is an Ulanen-Oberst.

He has quite interesting decorations. Maybe we could find some more out if we would have a higher solution pic. And the backsid could be helpful too. Feel free to contact me via PM.

Kindest

Christian

Rolf2
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Re: Please ID K.u.K. General

Post by Rolf2 » 24 Jul 2017 21:56

Thanks a lot Christian. Here you have a close up of the Oberst:

Image

I don´t know if this is enough to understand a little better something more about.

I can´t post the back of the photo...I downloaded it from the net few years ago

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Re: Please ID K.u.K. General

Post by Rolf2 » 24 Jul 2017 22:32

I think I found out who this Oberst is: Oberst KRAHL, Adjutant des Herzog Johann Salvator.

Anybody could check this information?

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kaisertreu
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Re: Please ID K.u.K. General

Post by kaisertreu » 25 Jul 2017 00:09

Hi,

I am 99.99% certain it is Oberst Napoleon Krahl.

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Re: Please ID K.u.K. General

Post by Rolf2 » 25 Jul 2017 01:02

Good! Thank you Kaisertreu. Any Biographical Informations on him?

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Frech
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Re: Please ID K.u.K. General

Post by Frech » 25 Jul 2017 04:12

Yes, we could find out following:


Ruhestands-Schematismus 1914:

Napoleon KRAHL

Oberst a.D. , Kavallerie,


Geb. 1842

Kriegsjahr 1866

außer Dienst 1899

FJO-O , Kriegsmedaille, Dienstzeichen 2. Klasse für Offiziere, Jubiläumserinnerungsmedailel für die bewaffnete Macht, Militär-Jubiläumskreuz 1908, toscanische Militär-Verdienstorden-Offizier, hannoveranische Verdienstmedaille;

zugeteilt dem Hofstaate Seiner k.u.k. Hoheit des Erzherzogs Leopold Salvator;

Wohnadresse: Wien XVI., Savoyenstraße 2

Heeres-Schematismus 1894

Napoleon KRAHL, Rittmeister 1. Classe (überkomplett) , zugeteilt dem Hofstaate Seiner k.u.k. Hoheit des Erzherzogs Leopold Salvator, im Uhlanen-Regiment Nr. 6

Hof- und Staats-Handbuch 1914:

Napoleon KRAHL
Oberst a.D. , zugeteilt dem Hofstaate Seiner k.u.k. Hoheit des Erzherzogs Leopold Salvator;

FJO-O , Kriegsmedaille, Dienstzeichen 1. Klasse für Offiziere, Jubiläumserinnerungsmedailel für die bewaffnete Macht, Militär-Jubiläumskreuz 1908, toscanische Militär-Verdienstorden-Offizier,

Die hannoveranische Medaille ist hier nicht vermerkt, dafür aber die 1. Klasse des Dienstzeichens für Offiziere;

Verleihung des FJO-Offizier im Jahre 1908;

Bei der "hannoveranischen Verdienstmedaille" handelt es sich mit hoher Wahrscheinlichkeit um die "Langensalza Medaille".

Kindest

Christian

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Re: Please ID K.u.K. General

Post by Rolf2 » 25 Jul 2017 16:24

Great datas. Thank you again

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ttvon
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Re: Please ID K.u.K. General

Post by ttvon » 03 Mar 2019 00:51

Hello,
Here is an Oberst (26) in 1938 taken by Hugo Jaeger. We can see his collar clear.
Who? Thanks!
I posted here too viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33906&start=885

ttvon
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Frech
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Re: Please ID K.u.K. General

Post by Frech » 03 Mar 2019 09:05

ttvon wrote:
03 Mar 2019 00:51
Hello,
Here is an Oberst (26) in 1938 taken by Hugo Jaeger. We can see his collar clear.
Who? Thanks!
I posted here too viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33906&start=885

ttvon
It´s hard to find him out. As far as I can see, he has golden Buttons (hard to tell). Therefore he should be a member of former IR 2 ("kaisergelbe" cuffs) or IR 16 ("schwefelgelbe" cuffs). He would have been Oberst or Oberstleutnant (later Titular-Oberst by the republic) at the end of war in 1918. Iron Crown 2nd class and Ritterkreuz Leopoldorden would narrow it down. But there is no evidence which of the other officers were eventually bestowed IC2 by the Heller-Kommission in 1919 or 1920.

We should find him here:

Viktor Sagai (who received IC2 in June 1918) died in 1925 as General. That rules him out.
August Spiess became Romanian citizen in 1921 what rules him out too.

Regards

Christian
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Frech
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Re: Please ID K.u.K. Oberst

Post by Frech » 03 Mar 2019 15:55

If we assume that there are silver buttons we have other candidates from IR 31 or IR 101.

No one is a 100 % hit if we look on their decorations in Schematismus 1918 but there may be bestowings of medals by Heller-Kommission after 1918.

Oberst Ing. Wilhelm Hettinger and Oberstleutnants Ing. Eugen von Erlach and Karl Divizioli were promising candidates.

Regards

Christian
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kaisertreu
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Re: Please ID K.u.K. Oberst

Post by kaisertreu » 03 Mar 2019 21:07

I have just checked Joerg Steiner's 'Schematismus der Generale und Obersten der k.u.k. Armee (page 120) and Oberst Wilhelm Hettinger is a match, with the exception of the Iron Cross 2nd class (not listed).
No others match up with the awards.

One thing is not clear to me though. Oberst Hettinger is listed with a BMVM (KDS) and BMVM (red ribbon), but the photo clearly shows both MVMs on the war ribbon and with swords. Additionally, the first MVM appears to be a SMVM. This of course could be an illusion and in fact both are bronze MVM’s, but why then is the 2nd BMVM on the war ribbon and with swords?

Regards,
Ian

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Frech
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Re: Please ID K.u.K. Oberst

Post by Frech » 03 Mar 2019 23:02

kaisertreu wrote:
03 Mar 2019 21:07
I have just checked Joerg Steiner's 'Schematismus der Generale und Obersten der k.u.k. Armee (page 120) and Oberst Wilhelm Hettinger is a match, with the exception of the Iron Cross 2nd class (not listed).
No others match up with the awards.

One thing is not clear to me though. Oberst Hettinger is listed with a BMVM (KDS) and BMVM (red ribbon), but the photo clearly shows both MVMs on the war ribbon and with swords. Additionally, the first MVM appears to be a SMVM. This of course could be an illusion and in fact both are bronze MVM’s, but why then is the 2nd BMVM on the war ribbon and with swords?

Regards,
Ian
There is just one explaination for that: he received SMVM.X after WW1 by Heller-Kommission. And he did not wear his pre-war medals and therefore not his BMVM with red ribbon.
Regarding EK2: foreign decorations never were listed in Schematismus just in Haus-, Hof- und Staatshandbuch.

All in all there is a very high plausibility it´s Hettinger but not 100 %.

Regards

Christian

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kaisertreu
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Re: Please ID K.u.K. Oberst

Post by kaisertreu » 03 Mar 2019 23:28

Christian,

Thank you for the answer, and I agree that there is a high probability that it is Wilhelm Hettinger.

One other small point, the photo is credited with being taken in 1938, but according to my records Hettinger died in 1935.

Pardon my ignorance, but how did the Heller Commission report their findings?

Regards,
Ian

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Re: Please ID K.u.K. Oberst

Post by Frech » 04 Mar 2019 06:13

kaisertreu wrote:
03 Mar 2019 23:28
Christian,

Thank you for the answer, and I agree that there is a high probability that it is Wilhelm Hettinger.

One other small point, the photo is credited with being taken in 1938, but according to my records Hettinger died in 1935.

Pardon my ignorance, but how did the Heller Commission report their findings?

Regards,
Ian
Dear Ian,
I would think the fact that Hettinger died in 1935 minimizes the probability :lol:. We have to find out another candidate.

Heller commission: they had to finish all open "Belohnungsanträge" beginning in 1919. There are lots of files but they are not retrievable on base of the names in alphabetical order. You have to dig in dozens of archive boxes as far as I know. Maybe we start a project to do this within the next years.

Regards

Christian

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