austrian army record

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Balrog
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austrian army record

Post by Balrog » 08 Jul 2003 01:20

does anyone have any information on pope john paul's father and his austrian army record? what rank was his father? which branch did he serve ? what medlas did he recieve? what wars did he fight in? any information is appreciated.

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Galicia
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Post by Galicia » 18 Jul 2003 03:29

Sir,

Pope John Paul's Father was a Sergeant. He fought in the First World War. I can only tell you that he recieved for a fact the WWI Commemorative Austrian War Medal, and I believe he recived a small Bronze Medal for Bravery.

Seriously, why not write the Pope. I'm sure he'll be happy to answer questions about his own family.

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Post by Balrog » 18 Jul 2003 03:33

what little i've been able to find said that his father was a captain. i think the Pope has more to work on than answer letters about his father's military service record...

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Galicia
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Post by Galicia » 18 Jul 2003 03:56

I got my information from a History Channel video, so, thats my knowledge.

But, the Captain's insignia and the Sergeant's insignia are quite similar, so it might be my mistake, (probably).

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Post by Ostmark » 12 Aug 2003 13:58

Isnt the pope polish? Where his father born in the Polishspeaking areas of the doublemonarchy? This interests me :)

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Post by Balrog » 12 Aug 2003 15:28

yes, the pope is polish. however, "poland" didn't really exist when the pope's father served as an officer in the hapsburg army. poland was until the end of ww1 divided into 3 pieces, ruled by russia,germany, and austria.

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Post by Ostmark » 12 Aug 2003 18:44

joel pacheco wrote:yes, the pope is polish. however, "poland" didn't really exist when the pope's father served as an officer in the hapsburg army. poland was until the end of ww1 divided into 3 pieces, ruled by russia,germany, and austria.


Yes, i knew about Poland being divided. But i was almost sure he originated from the Russian parts. But thanks for clearing that up for me.

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Post by Balrog » 12 Aug 2003 20:28

i think the pope was from the town of widowice.(SP?) it was a small town with a large jewish population.(the pope's family however was not anti-semtic and had good relations with all thier neighbors) i know that part of poland is now in the present day ukraine and russia, i'm not sure if the pope's hometown was annexed after ww2. the pope's father entered the hapsburg army as a private, advanced up throughthe ranks. he was attached to an infantry regiment. the pope's father only left the haspsburg army because poland became an independant country at the end of ww1. the pope's father worked as a tailor after the war and some articles i've read suggest he served as an officer in the polish army in the 1920's. the pope was a "surprise baby". his fahter and mother were in their early 40's when he was born. he had a much older brother who was a doctor. the brother died when the pope was 9, after he volunteered to attend to scarlet fever victims in a quartined hospital. the pope's mother died when he was 12. the father and son lived in rather difficult financially circumstances for most of the pope's life. the pope's father died in 1941, at the age of 61. the future pope was just 20 years old, and alone in the world. he was a university student when the germans and soviets invaded in 1939. by 1941 the pope was drafted into a labor gang carrying buckets of chemicals in a german controlled factory. he performed resistance plays on the underground theater circiut during occupation. that's all i can remember. a forum member sent me a complete career sheet n the pope's father. i have it written down somewhere, i'll post it when i can find it.
Last edited by Balrog on 21 Aug 2003 14:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Balrog » 12 Aug 2003 20:51

i found my notes. the pope's father appeared to have been a career NCO who was eventually promoted into the officer corps. a forum member(glenn ) sent me some record of the father. he was awarded the civil merit cross with crown in addition to some other ww1 and other army sevice medals. he was a regimental staff officer in an infantry regiment. glenn has his own hapsburg army website.

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Post by Galicia » 17 Aug 2003 20:59

Sir,

But he couldn't have progressed past the rank of Oberleutnant. That, to my knowledge, was the highest rank ever obtained by a soldier from the Other Ranks. The Oberleutnant, (forgive me as I forget his name), was a Maria Theresa Orden winner.

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Military Official

Post by Glenn2438 » 17 Aug 2003 21:15

Karl Wojtyla was a military official in the rank of Militärevidenzassistent (equivalent to Leutnant) on the strength of Infanterieregiment Graf Daun Nr.56 assigned to the Replacement District (Ergänzungsbezirk) Wadowice.

You are correct in your statement that promotions from the ranks were extremely rare although that had not been the case in the nineteenth century but in the case of Wojtyla, he was a military registration official and not an officer. There is a distinction and former NCOs were often appointed as military officials with the equivalent of commissioned rank.

To the best of my knowledge only two NCOs were commissioned in the A-H army in WW1 - both Golden Bravery Medal Winners and both posthumously - Offiziersstellvertreter Franz Rybicki and Stabsfeldwebel Josef Kiss.

Regards
Glenn

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Post by Balrog » 18 Aug 2003 17:14

the internet sites i have searched describe the pope's father as being a retired army officer, and "captain". i found a couple of websites that say he served in the polish army in the 1920's. one site claims the 12th infantry regiment of wadowice, a polish army unit that fought in the 1919-1920 polish-russian war. the Pope's father was an officer in that regiment after leaving the hapsburg army in 1918. i don't know how long he served in the polish army, but i am assuming that the polish army service explains his "small" pension. perhaps it was in the polish army that the pope's father became an officer(captain). i misunderstood what glenn sent me about the officer rank of the pope's father, apparently some kind of hapsburg military civil service rank. if anyone has access to the polish 12th wadowice infantry regiments archives(and speaks polish) i would still like to know more about the pope's father's service record. the pope's father served in the polish 12th infantry regiment in the 1919-20 war with russia.

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