Justice for Hungary!

Discussions on all aspects of Austria-Hungary. Hosted by Glenn Jewison.
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Gyenes
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#121

Post by Gyenes » 30 Jan 2004, 22:54

Can anyone explain about the Istro-Romanians and how they find themselves way out in croatia or near about?

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Victor
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#122

Post by Victor » 31 Jan 2004, 23:10

There are only 1 or 2,000 left in 8 or 9 villages and their chances of surviving are minimal. There are generally two theories of how they got there. One would be a migration from other parts of the Balkan Peninsula sometime in the 14th century. Since they were mostly shepards, that would not be so far fetched. The other theory would be that they are small surviving community from Roman times. Given the mountaineous region (Mount Maggiore) that would also not be something to rule-out.

The Istro-Romanians benefitted from a Romanian school only for a short while in the inter-war period, through the efforts of Andrei Glavina.
I do not if they are recognized as a minority in present-day Croatia.


viriato
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#123

Post by viriato » 01 Feb 2004, 16:08

Gyenes wrote:
Again Bratislava [Poszony] was almost 100% Hungarian in 1914...
Completely wrong!

This a summary of the German population of Pressburg [Poszony/Prešporok/Bratislava(only form 1919 onwards)] from http://www.geocities.com/diekarpatendeutschen/

Year/Total population/German Population/Percentage of Germans

1880/48 006/30 432/63,4

1890/52 411/31 394/59,9

1900/61 537/30 953/50,3

1910/73 459/36 729/41,9

1921/87 621/25 837/29,5

1930/123 844/32 801/28,06

As can be seen Germans were the majority till the beginning of the twentieth century and their number drop because of two main reasons:

1-A few Germans were Magyarised before WW1 (a policy actively pursued by the Hungarian government);

2-The population increase of then city was mostly from Slovaks coming from nearby regions.

Krilnik
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#124

Post by Krilnik » 05 Feb 2004, 15:00

I must say I've never hear about Istro-Romanians till today and that really amazed me cause Croatia is only country in the world in which minority has more rights and privileges than it's natives and there is no any bigger group of foreigners that hadn't at least 1 hour documentary on national TV.

And about those Romanians, there are 470 of them in one village(Šušnjevica) and few hamlets,their language is mixture of Italian ,Romanian and Croatian (is spoken only from older ones)and there is no real evidence how they end up here (probably when running from Otomans).Maybe is interesting that in village Šušnjevica they have 5 churches on less then 400 people!

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Allen Milcic
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#125

Post by Allen Milcic » 17 Feb 2004, 03:42

My regards to all contributors!

Going back to Trianon, while I sympathize with the Hungarians regarding lost territories, I must say that some of those territories were not historically Hungarian, and had minimal to no Hungarian inhabitants at the end of WW1. I am speaking mainly of Croatia, which was in a joint kingdom with Hungary some 800 years, but which kept its cultural, linguistic and national identity throughout (despite some clumsy attempts at Hungarianization over the years). I find the separation of Croatia from Hungary at Trianon completely logical and acceptable (though I am, naturally, perhaps somewhat biased due to my nationality?), and find that the injustice is in the fact that the Croatians were not allowed an independent state at that point, but were forced into a sub-serviant position in a ridiculous and unworkable union with the Kingdom of Serbia.

I have also never heard of Istro-Romanians?

Regards from Canada.

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Gyenes
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#126

Post by Gyenes » 17 Feb 2004, 22:58

A family of differences.

Well on my father's side of the family my grandfather is 100% hungarian and my grandmother 100% croatian. So, I believe it is safe to say reconciliation is possible. lol. And to even add to the dilema my mother is protestant (as well as her whole family) while my father is catholic (with the remainder of his family).

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Allen Milcic
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#127

Post by Allen Milcic » 17 Feb 2004, 23:26

Gyenes wrote:A family of differences.

Well on my father's side of the family my grandfather is 100% hungarian and my grandmother 100% croatian. So, I believe it is safe to say reconciliation is possible. lol. And to even add to the dilema my mother is protestant (as well as her whole family) while my father is catholic (with the remainder of his family).
Hello Gyenes:

I'm not sure reconciliation is necessary between Croatia and Hungary - the two states and the two peoples seem to have been getting along fine for the past 50+ years. Hungary helped Croatia a LOT during the war of independence 1991-1995, and Hungary is the only state that the Republic of Croatia has no border disputes with.

BTW my great-grandmother Erzebet was Hungarian from Baranja.

Regards from Canada.

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Gyenes
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#128

Post by Gyenes » 18 Feb 2004, 22:59

I know it has little to do with the actual countries on the whole but what I was getting at was that if my grandparents (one croat, one hungarian) could be married for more than 50yrs it means well I had it all thought out then all my eggs broke... :D Well I will just leave it at that.
Next topic.

Hey just curious how far along would you say Croatia is to joing EU? And do you think it is a good thing? (ie does it take too much away from a croat identity and make a flat colourless european one)

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Allen Milcic
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#129

Post by Allen Milcic » 19 Feb 2004, 03:09

Hi Gyenes:

I think Croatia should be in the EU by the year 2007. I believe that, in the long run, this will be of great benefit to the Croatian state and the Croatian people; in the short run, there will be some painful adjustments and changes. It will become much simpler to make the transition once the generations that grew up and lived under the Communists pass on.

My best regards.

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Gyenes
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#130

Post by Gyenes » 20 Feb 2004, 23:22

Just wanted your opinion on the topic, as I am from America it is hard for me to experiance such changes that europe has seen in the recent decade.

bundi
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#131

Post by bundi » 22 Mar 2004, 23:57

Some pages about trianon:

http://www.trianon.hu
http://www.nemnemsoha.hu

also see: mindentvissza.uw.hu



/bundi

Mimo
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#132

Post by Mimo » 12 Nov 2007, 13:03

Austro-Hubgary was an artificial state. That's mean your Great Hungary was an artificial state. You see almost only your point of view. Mabe the nations who deal with hungarian miority are not ideal, but I think you(hungarians) never been and you'll never be able to deal with minorities like they do. Otherway, I think there would been not Great Hungary(or didn't lasted) without Austria

MihaiC
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#133

Post by MihaiC » 13 Nov 2007, 19:35

Mimo, you replied to a 4 years old thread just to insult them? :roll:

Tosun Saral
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#134

Post by Tosun Saral » 14 Nov 2007, 19:52

Austro-Hungary was an artificial state. But Great Hungary was not an artificial state. Dear Hungarians suffered too much under Habsburg jork. They revolted many times. Each time the revolt was supressed by the help of Russians. At the end of the WW1 Hungary lost many of his own territories which they couldnt gained back. Unfortunately it is not well known in world wide.

Furthermore, my younger son, Emre Saral M.A who studies his PhD at the Hacettepe University, Ankara on history of Turkish Republic, wrote the following articles to enlighten and inform the Turkish public opinion.
- An Actual Survey On Vojvodina Question (I), Karadeniz Araştırmaları, No. 3 (Fall 2004), pp. 128-138. (Turkish)
- An Actual Survey On Vojvodina Question (II), Karadeniz Araştırmaları, No.4 (Winter 2005), pp. 100-112. (Turkish)
- The Conflict Among Romania & Hungaria On Transilvania Question, 2023, No.59 (March 2006), pp. 42-50. (Turkish)

Hungary is the key country in Europe. We Turks always support our Hungarian brothers. We are happy that Hungary is now a EU member. We all kow that good days are for Hungary in the near future.
Here I wrote a poem in Hungarian language written by Prof Dr. Vecdet Erkun "Waited for 50 Years"

Várj Ötven Évet

Vidám, szép napok
A Duna folyik csöndesen
Vigság, zene és szerelem
Van a magyar kedvesben
Ez árad szét minden szivben
Enyhe szellö a Gellért-hegyröl
De szorongás támad-hegyröl
A háborus elöjelektöl
Vajon mi jön a sölét nyugati felhöböl

Háboru szele ne fujj ezen a tájon
Ezen az ezeréves napsütötte sikon
Derék testvéri nemzet él
Magyarországon
Ne pusztits aljas vihar
Ha nem folyna a Duna
Kedvem elborulna,
Ha lesujtana a kegyetlen sors
Ha jönne az irgalamatlan ellenség
Oda lenne minden boldogságom örömöm

Sajons ezt a csapást el kell viselni
Csak várj évekig a boldogságra
Magyar testvérem
Az öldöklés nem öli meg a szabadságot
Ha nem virágazik is a rózsa a Rózsadombon
A hazaszeretet el nem hallgat
Ahogy jöttek elemennek a hivatlanok
A kegyetlenek évekig varataják a szabadságot

Ötven év mult el közben
Budapestre szép nap virradt
Evszázados testvéri szálaink
Ujra szabadon kötödnek
Vérünkben multak árradnak
Az Istenek velünk vannak

1994

Ebben a rövid versben egy szerény, a magyarokat szeretö Török az 1940-es
Években Magyarország háboruba lépse miatti szomoruságát és békés napok iránti vágyát igyekezett kifejezni.

Az Amerikai Egyesült Államokban élö fiamnak, Muhittin Erkunnak -



Az Ember Tragédiáya (x)

Van egy ország, tudod – e fiam ?
Kösép-Európában, népe Ázsiából vándorolt oda
Ezer esztendeje, akárcsak mi,
Ezer éves nép,
Tudod- e ?
A magyarok földje az,
A nép évszázadok höse.
De a közelmultban
Hivatlanok, tudvan tudva,
Mesét költöttek :
“Fölszabaditottunk titeket.”
Kivetették hálójukat.
Ýgértek, igérgettek,
Es folytatodott az ember tragédiája.
“Nemes medve” kent lépett föl (xx)
A gyözök e furcsa csapata,
Elözönlötték a szép aldöldeket, városokat,
S hajtogatták, hogy felszabaditották az országot.
Tudod, mi történt aztán, fiam,
Dolgoztatták a sebektöl vérzö népet, épitkezéseken, utakon,
Ejjel és nappal, hóban és fagyban,
Mint a rabszolgákat, a saját országukban...
Ýgy ettek, ittak,
S végül a felszabadulás lakomája
Végre visszavonultak e nemesek
A tragédia végetért.
Szabadság van most Magyarországon,
Mint a Török Közttirsasában.
Tudnod kell, hogy
Gyengéd és türelmes emberek országa az.
Erzösziv lakik mindenkiben,
Hiddel, ha a szép Magyarországon élnél,
Mindegyre jobban szeretnéd öket.

1996.febr.6.

(x) A cim nem függ össze Madách Az ember tragédiája c. Müvével.
(xx) A “nemes medve” kifejezés egy magyar ujságban megjelenö s e
vers témájául szolgáló cikkböl való.

Cheers
Tosun Saral
President of Turkish Hungarian Friendship Society in Ankara
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/7d696/202/

In Memoriam:

Kossuth:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/7d696/1bee7c/

Rakoczi:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/7d696/c11/

Thökeli:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/7d696/be3/

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Grisu
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#135

Post by Grisu » 15 Nov 2007, 10:24

The "artificial state"-argumentation seems quite odd to me, simply because I cannot think of one single (modern) state that is not artificial in the sense of not being deliberately defined, drafted and implemented by man. The various definitions of "state" do indeed imply the constructive character of this entity. Do/did natural, inartificial modern states really exist?

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