Justice for Hungary!

[MihaiC]

This term, "artificial state", is usually used in regard with multinational states.
I think that is pointless to use it in regard with medieval states - in those times, ethnicity of the subjects was not so important.
This term is better used when a state/border is decided by another power that usually knows too little about the local situation.

[Tosun Saral]

That's right MihaiC, Syria, Irak, Lebenon, Israel, Palastina, former Jugoslavia, former chekoslovakia, Greece are all artifical states. Their borders are drawn by some officers at Head Quarters. For that reason there is no peace in those lands.

[dead-cat]

no peace in former chechoslovakia? in the last 17 years i traversed that territory for about 20 times or so without noticing any sign of unrest.

[yaro]

2 Tosun Saral:

It was impossible to have a fair breakup of Austria Hungary, as people could migrate easily so Hungarians lived separated in current Romania, Germans in Bohemia. You couldn't draw up fair borders for everyone due to these islands of different ethnicity. Since "allies" wanted to weaken Austria-Hungary during the war, they supported various secessionist movements in and outside Austria-Hungary. After the war, minor nations could easily acquire more land than they would get normally. So Czechoslovakia got land which was historical Bohemia, but with borders inhabited by "disloyal" Germans, also land where Hungarians had a majority. Austria regarded Bohemia as inseparable from Austria, while for Hungary Slovakia was also inseparable. The loss of Slovakia is still painful for Hungary today. I don't know the opinion of Austrians though. Although Otto von Habsburg worked on restoration of the monarchy, I can't imagine it working after events of WW2. Habsburgs were also banned from Austria for unusually long time so that speaks about popularity of Habsburgs in Austria.

I hope Turkey is not putting much faith into joining the EU, as it will not happen. Do not be blinded by politicians.

[Tosun Saral]

"I hope Turkey is not putting much faith into joining the EU, as it will not happen. Do not be blinded by politicians."

I thank you for your good advice. There will be no EU soon. There will be three Unions in Europe.
1- German Europe with Austria, Hungary, Czechei, Slovakai, Poland, Holland, Balkan lands and Italy
2-French Europe with Valons of artifical state of Belgium
3-Scandinavian

Turkey???? We have still birth-pains. Mother Anatolia will give birth to a Satan or Angel. Let's wait and see. After the birth we will decide to invade or join one union or another union such as China, India, Iran.

[KACKO]

That's right MihaiC, Syria, Irak, Lebenon, Israel, Palastina, former Jugoslavia, former chekoslovakia, Greece are all artifical states. Their borders are drawn by some officers at Head Quarters. For that reason there is no peace in those lands.

Very well, so when Slovakia will give away territories with around 500 000 Hungarians (probably less because a lot of them are living in territories where Slovaks are majority) what are we going to do with appr. 350 - 400 000 Slovaks who will find themselves in Hungary?

Or maybe Turkey will go with example and proclaime independent state of Kurdistan on part of it's territory?

As you see there is no good solution and what we have to do now is accept each other on territories we share together.

As you Torsun see, some Hungarians are crying over lost of territories but they forget that on major part of this territories were living nations which didn't want to have nothing with Kingdom of Hungary anymore.
It is sad borders were not set more by nationality of population.
But even after Vienna 1938 when Hungarian borders were move to north this was not issue. Many areas with mostly Slovak population were transfered to Hungary.

So what is solution? What do you think?

[Tosun Saral]

Hi Kacko good day mate.
to your Q: "Or maybe Turkey will go with example and proclaime independent state of Kurdistan on part of it's territory? "

I answered:"Turkey???? We have still birth-pains. Mother Anatolia will give birth to a Satan or Angel. Let's wait and see. After the birth we will decide to invade or join one union or another union such as China, India, Iran. "

Our Kurdish brothers will decide to stay with us or go away, with whom we established the Turkish Republic together and living and dying in the same trench in all wars since 1000 years, If they wish to seperate they can do that peacefully.If they seperate many problems will occur. The best parts will be remined in Turkey. [ Your country saperated. The best parts remained in Checkei.] They will have no way out to sell their goods or oil. Araps hate them. Irans hate them. They have one real brother the Turk. Lets wait and see.

I want to remind you that we are not fighting againts our Kurdish Brothers but a terror organization. We will do our best to hold piece of land in East Turkey which will connect us to Iran, Azerbayjan and Central Asia. If we lost that piece of land it is great trouble.

So what is solution? What do you think?

Russians couldnt swollow Slovakia in the last 50 years but it is obvious that will be swolled by Germans in the near future.

[Glenn2438]

Gentlemen,

we are straying off the subject of Austria-Hungary! There are other places to discuss "modern" politicial questions but not here.

Regards
Glenn

[Mimo]

In Austro-Hungarian empire, the hungarians had much more influence that others nations like valachians, czechs, slovakians, croatians,... So, they had can to chose preferential terains over centuries. If they would was equal with others, they would live now in much more compact zones, and mabe hungary could be biger than it is. Obviously, this was an deliberate policy of the hungarians predecesors to control many zones they could. It was, or it was not a mistake of the last centuries hungarians to spread much than they can swallow?

[yaro]

2 Tosun Saral:
There is no reason for split of EU into 3 parts. I don't know how you came to that conclusion other than lack of knowledge. I think it is only a matter of time before Kurds have independence, it seems every nation wants to have its own state at some point - we can see this in whole europe - Yugoslavia, UK, Sovien union etc. Austria-Hungary was unable to reform before tensions got out of control. At least it separated peacefully, as after the war no state could enforce the monarchy with army. Another war was impossible. Although there were plans for transforming it into "Greater austria" - a federation, these plans were not realized for many years, only just in late 1918 Karl came with offer to give Austrian part greater autonomy, but this did not include Hungarian part. Turkey should learn from europes history that has proved if minorities rights are ignored it leads to bigger trouble.

2 Mimo:
I think transformation into dual monarchy effectively killed it 50 years ahead, as it was impossible to reform without hungarian agreement, which they wouldnt get. Austrian side of bank notes also had writings in minor languages but hungarian side only in hungarian. In those 50 years, about 30% of Slovak population left for USA, so the situation was really bad. But if you look at other monarchies of that time, they all did the same, they all tried to assimilate their minorities.

[Mimo]

I didn't studied to much the Austro-Hungarian history, but I red somewhere that the austrian reformists planed an proportional etnicity parlament Thats meant, for example, the valachians influence in Transilvania would had increased more that hungarians. For that the hungarians aversion against austrians. But is not shure if austrian planning worked in the case of valachians, because they had to consider the rightful will of the valachians to live in a country with their relatives from valachian kingdom.

[Tosun Saral]

Hi Kacko good day mate.
to your Q: "Or maybe Turkey will go with example and proclaime independent state of Kurdistan on part of it's territory? "

I answered:"Turkey???? We have still birth-pains. Mother Anatolia will give birth to a Satan or Angel. Let's wait and see. After the birth we will decide to invade or join one union or another union such as China, India, Iran. "

Our Kurdish brothers will decide to stay with us or go away, with whom we established the Turkish Republic together and living and dying in the same trench in all wars since 1000 years, If they wish to seperate they can do that peacefully.If they seperate many problems will occur. The best parts will be remined in Turkey. [ Your country saperated. The best parts remained in Checkei.] They will have no way out to sell their goods or oil. Araps hate them. Irans hate them. They have one real brother the Turk. Lets wait and see.

I want to remind you that we are not fighting againts our Kurdish Brothers but a terror organization. We will do our best to hold piece of land in East Turkey which will connect us to Iran, Azerbayjan and Central Asia. If we lost that piece of land it is great trouble.

So what is solution? What do you think?

Russians couldnt swollow Slovakia in the last 50 years but it is obvious that will be swolled by Germans in the near future.

ORRRRR! What do you say for an expanded Turkey?

[Glenn2438]

This thread has now run its course and is closed.

Regards
Glenn