Justice for Hungary!
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Jon Sutton
- Member
- Posts: 44
- Joined: 12 Apr 2003, 19:10
- Location: Trier, Germany
Sudetenland
Surely the Sudetenland was part of the Second Reich before it was incorporated in the new state of Czechoslovakia? I don't think that the Austrians had ever considered Bohemia and Moravia as parts of Austria proper, but the area around Sopron and the Neusiedlersee had been part of Hungary for hundreds of years. Why was Austria allowed to take compensation for losing part of the Southern Tyrol to Italy by taking the present-day Burgenland on the grounds that it was inhabited by a majority of Germans when Hungary lost areas across the new borders which were still inhabited by a Hungarian majority?
The kingdom of Bohemia was ruled by the Habsburg dynasty since 1526.
Since 1804 it was was part of the Kaisertum Österreich (Austrian Empire).
Bohemia never was a part of the Second Reich (I take it you mean Imperial Germany founded by Bismark).
Since 1867 Bohemia was a part of the Austrian half of the double monarchy.
Following President Wilsons fourteen points, people expected that the German inhabited parts of Bohemia would become a part of the new Austrian republic, which itself was also expected to become a part of new republican Germany.
The victorious Entente made sure none of these expectations became reality. As I have stated before, the plebiscite was a solution to solve the territoral dispute between Austria and Hungary, who both lost the war.
All the other territories left over from the breakdown of Austria-Hungary joined states, which were also considered victorious powers by the Entente, so no plebiscites in those areas.
Not a fair approach at all, but since the Entente powers won the war, they could do what they wanted.
This map was published by the Austrian newspaper "Interessantes Blatt" in December 1918 and shows Austria in its then expected borders.
Since 1804 it was was part of the Kaisertum Österreich (Austrian Empire).
Bohemia never was a part of the Second Reich (I take it you mean Imperial Germany founded by Bismark).
Since 1867 Bohemia was a part of the Austrian half of the double monarchy.
Following President Wilsons fourteen points, people expected that the German inhabited parts of Bohemia would become a part of the new Austrian republic, which itself was also expected to become a part of new republican Germany.
The victorious Entente made sure none of these expectations became reality. As I have stated before, the plebiscite was a solution to solve the territoral dispute between Austria and Hungary, who both lost the war.
All the other territories left over from the breakdown of Austria-Hungary joined states, which were also considered victorious powers by the Entente, so no plebiscites in those areas.
Not a fair approach at all, but since the Entente powers won the war, they could do what they wanted.
This map was published by the Austrian newspaper "Interessantes Blatt" in December 1918 and shows Austria in its then expected borders.
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Gwynn Compton
- Member
- Posts: 2840
- Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 23:46
- Location: United Kingdom
It's interesting that Austria would have gained so much more territory as a result of this map. Certainly Weimar Germany would have appreciated Austria gaining this territory more than what historically happened. Austria herself though would have been in a stronger barginning position with Hitler come the 1930s as well.
Gwynn
Gwynn
There would have been nothing to bargain for, because the Anschluss would have happened in 1919.
In 1919 there were even referendums in some Austrian provinces if those should join the Weimar republic, which where huge successes in favour of that.
But the Entente verdict of St. Germain was not be changed, because Germany would have become to powerful in south eastern Europe.
In 1919 there were even referendums in some Austrian provinces if those should join the Weimar republic, which where huge successes in favour of that.
But the Entente verdict of St. Germain was not be changed, because Germany would have become to powerful in south eastern Europe.
Just wondering as we are talking of the Anschluss. As there are many bans in modern Germany against the memories of WW2 i.e. no public swastica no WW2 reenacting (well unless you want to wear plain clothes and call yourself "team one" etc.). Now is there a ban on any union between Austria and Germany nowadays. I am not saying that people really want it as they have there seperate identities but I am just curious. Also what about Germany developing Nuclear Weapons?
Excellent site. Though the majority is in Hungarian (as I can't read Hungarian) Though some of the parts and links were in English which I found very intresting. Another good site on Hungarian history on the whole is
http://www.hungary.com/corvinus/index.htm
Say, Do you know of any site that has a text copy of the actual treaty of Trianon (in English)?
Now to say one thing about the anchluss. Wasn't there also a ban after WW1 in the treaty that declared no union between Germany and Austria as well?
http://www.hungary.com/corvinus/index.htm
Say, Do you know of any site that has a text copy of the actual treaty of Trianon (in English)?
Now to say one thing about the anchluss. Wasn't there also a ban after WW1 in the treaty that declared no union between Germany and Austria as well?
Yes there was. Article 88 of the treaty signed at St. Germain-en-Laye, 10 September 1919 states:Gyenes wrote:Now to say one thing about the anchluss. Wasn't there also a ban after WW1 in the treaty that declared no union between Germany and Austria as well?
'The independence of Austria is inalienable otherwise than with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations. Consequently Austria undertakes in the absence of the consent of the said Council to abstain from any act which might directly or indirectly or by any means whatever compromise her independence, particularly, and until her admission to membership of the League of Nations, by participation in the affairs of another Power.'
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