Downfall of Austro-Hungary

Discussions on all aspects of Austria-Hungary. Hosted by Glenn Jewison.
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Franz-Joseph
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Downfall of Austro-Hungary

Post by Franz-Joseph » 10 Feb 2004 23:28

I have great interest in Austro-Hungary and especially in kaiser Franz-Joseph.Still I sorrow its downfall and lost of the ancient empire.
I am very interested in theories of destruction of this monarchy, I was looking over internet, but did not find anything.I heard one theory that Willson wanted to destroy the monarchy, because it was the last and powerfull catolich monarchy.Alsoi heard that Princip was in England for 3 months before the assasination.I was to hear your point of view and if someone knows internet page with some info.
Thank you.

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Gyenes
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Post by Gyenes » 11 Feb 2004 00:41

From what I have read of the archdukes murder it was sure luck that Princip got him. For one the driver of the archduke's car was from out of town (Czech?) and he got lost turned on a side street where Princip just happened to be exiting a building. He then fired his pistol and the rest is quite well know.

You say, Alois knew Princip was in England for 3 months? Did Princip ever go to England? Also the therory about Wilson does seem far fetched.

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Franz-Joseph
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hmm

Post by Franz-Joseph » 11 Feb 2004 12:11

I just said what I heard.Why would not Princip went to England?
I heard Willson was a freemason.
I am not saying this is true, I read this somewhere or heard it.

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hauptmannn
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Post by hauptmannn » 11 Feb 2004 12:23

The fact that Wilson may be a freemason did not sem far-fetched as there were many men practicing free masonry. And i heard even George Washington was a freemason

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Franz-Joseph
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Yes, I agree

Post by Franz-Joseph » 11 Feb 2004 13:22

If you look on some american symbols, you find out they are freemanson.They are certianally very simmilar.

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Gyenes
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Post by Gyenes » 11 Feb 2004 22:16

George Washington I am pretty sure at one time was a free mason of some sorts. I know he attended there meetings occasionally just not sure of his actually standing with the free masons.

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Chadwick
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Post by Chadwick » 13 Feb 2004 03:26

There are various theories to why the Austro-Hungarian Empire dissolved. The Wilson theory I would not put much faith in. And this is not b/c I am a Yank. If this theory was so than we would have tried to topple Spain, France, and especially Italy. Why go after Austria if Wilson could have captured the pope. :lol: :lol:

The Austro-Hungarian Empire (AHE) was becoming very ungainly not only with it's size, but also in appeasing the variety of nationalistic cries from the subjects. The AHE was a multi-national empire: Hungarians, Magyars, Croats, Bulgarians, Turks, Northern Italian, Southern Germans, Serbs, etc. etc. The Hungarians were already granted a dual monarchy status, but the rest of the various ethnic groups wanted either their independence, to have their territory returned to their parent countries, or more of a say in how they were being led.

Cracks in the AHE eventually became chasms once WWI started and they were eventually forced to fight a two front war between Imperial Russia and Italy. The severe loss of manpower as well as a crumbling economy also contributed to the decline of the empire. Overall my own opinion is that even if WWI would not have occured the AHE would have eventually dissolved unless a reformer would have come to the throne to deal w/ the above mentioned issues. Otherwise you might have seen the AHE embroiled in a revolution similar to what brought down the Romanov dynasty.

chris

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 14 Feb 2004 21:09

A confederation of autonomous states, joined under the Austrian crown and with a central government that oversaw only the federal armed forces, postal service, external affairs and a handful of other ministries, could have been the saving grace. Aparently, plans along these lines were in their early stages in Vienna, but WW1 interupted them. All I know is, Croatia would have been better off in an Austrian led state than in the Serb dominated monarchy it ended up in post-WW1.

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Chadwick
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Post by Chadwick » 15 Feb 2004 05:04

Croat,

I heard recently on the history channel a story relating to the assasination of Franz Ferdinand. On the documentary it talked about how the Archduke had plans to reform aspects of the Habsburg monarchy. Are these the reforms you were talking about in your last post?

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 16 Feb 2004 16:44

Chadwick wrote:Croat,

I heard recently on the history channel a story relating to the assasination of Franz Ferdinand. On the documentary it talked about how the Archduke had plans to reform aspects of the Habsburg monarchy. Are these the reforms you were talking about in your last post?


Hello Chadwick:

Yes, exactly. I believe this is part of the reason Ferdinand was assassinated by enemies of Austria - the reforms would have made the state viable for hundreds of years into the future.

Best regards.

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Gyenes
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Post by Gyenes » 17 Feb 2004 00:45

I have heard some where that after ww2, there was actually a movement to revitalize the hapsburg monarchy, anyone know anything about that or is it all fiction?

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hauptmannn
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Post by hauptmannn » 17 Feb 2004 09:02

Austria-Hungary used to be the most powerful state in Europe and possibly the world together with Prussia between 1730-1785 but it was known as Austria then. When was Austria created as a Dual Monarchy and why?

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dead-cat
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Post by dead-cat » 17 Feb 2004 09:19

1867. the emperor was at the same time apostolic king of hungary.

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Daryl Leeworthy
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Post by Daryl Leeworthy » 17 Feb 2004 14:54

I think the reason why it separated was a matter of government. It made it easier to have two civil servants instead of one. There's a good book on the last years of the Hapsburg Monarchy:

Decline and Fall of the Hapsburg Empire 1815-1918
by Alan Sked
ISBN: 0582356660

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