Don71 wrote:Most of the forced to cede areas from Empire Germany at the Versaille Treaty were in the name of Self-determination.
What excuse did Germany use after 1871 - 1918 for all the treaties it imposed and removed land from a nation?
Don71 wrote:Whole Austria Ungary was forced to destroy itself after the war, in the name of Self-determination.
This is such an incorrect statement I am surprised to read it coming from someone who appears to know at least a reasonable amount about the war! The Hapsburg Empire fell apart, the Czechs, Hungarians, and Poles all walked away long before any allied commission got to consider what to do with the lands. Self-determination yes, but from the inside, not imposed.
Don71 wrote:So it is a other Self-determination when it was dictaded by the Allies, then it was dictaded by Germay?
No. Wilson was the man who wanted self-determination, the others were far from enthusiastic on that point. My point is simply that Versailles was no different in its terms than other treaties, it was imposed on the vanquished.
Poles for a start or do you wish to maintain they wanted their nation annexed by Austria, Prussia and Russia? Then of course we can look at the Zabern Affair to see another. I presume you dont want me to look outside of Europe? If we want to consider the Hapsburg Empire we can maybe quadruple the total of oppressed minorities, Germany was far from in favour of self-determination in that case, only in Russia where it suited them to set up puppet states.
Don71 wrote:The Hapsburg Empire isn't or wasn't Germany
Never said it was. However, Germany sat on a lot of Poles and their lands, and the Zabern incident illustrates the ill-treatment of minorities, which is all you asked for when you said;
Don71 wrote:Which minorities were suppressed by the German Empire or Germany at all during this time?
I answered your question. Poles and the remaining ethnic French of Alsace-Lorraine. Zabern was a suppression of rights.
Don71 wrote:and what is with Irland or Scottland and I also don't want to look outside of Europe for France, GB and the USA hm?
You can do as you like on these points, the German record overseas isnt great, and in the end this subject has little to do with the Treaty of Versailles.
As I pointed out previously, you find in unacceptable that Germany should be made to pay what others want, you have no problem with the treaties the Germans imposed and even seek to justify them. You have no problem with Germany imposing its will on others, even justifying them doing so, so why do you have a problem when the same is done to Germany.