HMS Iron Duke

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South
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HMS Iron Duke

#1

Post by South » 14 Apr 2019, 11:34

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... ship-52267


Good morning all,

Per ...

Note discussion of Jutland; ... "took a severe toll on public and elite impressions of Admiral Jellicoe".


~ Bob

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Terry Duncan
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Re: HMS Iron Duke

#2

Post by Terry Duncan » 14 Apr 2019, 13:41

It is an interesting article but has a few minor errors. The British 13.5" gun was the equivalent of the US 14", both guns fired similar weight shells to a similar distance, the 0.5" difference in size being compensated for by these other factors, not to mention the US did suffer dispersion problems with the 14" guns.

Iron Duke was in the centre of the Grand Fleet at Jutland, the line was led by King George V because being in the centre allowed Jellicoe to observe far more of his own fleet and signal to it directly.

The term 'Super Dreadnought' is not exactly lacking definition, though it varied from nation to nation slightly for varying reasons. They are all centerline armed ships carrying heavier/better guns than the first Dreadnoughts had and were all powered by turbine engines.

Beatty was not liked by the crew on Iron Duke, but he never had any intention of using it as his flagship. He had spent the entire war so far trying to get his hands on the Queen Elizabeth class and moved to Queen Elizabeth as soon as arrangements could be made - Iron Duke was in dock for maintenance when he took command and Queen Elizabeth became the official flagship six weeks after Beatty took over. However, Beatty was not popular on Queen Elizabeth either and needed to be followed by a bodyguard of about a dozen marines when he toured the ship, the complete opposite of Jellicoe who had been able to wander on any ship and was genuinely respected by all the crews, even being seen fairly often talking with ratings on the quarterdeck in the evenings at Scapa. Beatty remained popular with most of the BCF, but the main body of the GF never really took to him in the same way they had to Callaghan and Jellicoe.


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Re: HMS Iron Duke

#3

Post by The Ibis » 14 Apr 2019, 23:56

Terry,
Why would Beatty need bodyguards...to say nothing of a dozen? Was he really in danger on his own ship?
"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." - Casey Stengel

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Terry Duncan
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Re: HMS Iron Duke

#4

Post by Terry Duncan » 15 Apr 2019, 00:14

The Ibis wrote:
14 Apr 2019, 23:56
Terry,
Why would Beatty need bodyguards...to say nothing of a dozen? Was he really in danger on his own ship?
Mostly to boost his ego, but there was a distinct chance of getting a beating although that was usually away from the ship. Arbuthnot who died at Jutland on the Defence was a boxing fan and thought nothing of getting in the ring and fighting ratings. On at least one occasion he was ambushed onshore and beaten senseless by disgruntled ratings, so it was not unknown for even the higher ranks to get a beating at times!

Beatty had basically spent all the time after Jutland telling people how he did all the fighting and had the battle won only for Jellicoe and the GF to throw a stunning victory away. Obviously, this didn't go down too well with the men of the GF, from the lowest ratings to the senior officers. By his manipulation of the press and facts Beatty had made himself a national hero and untouchable as fleet commander, but this went down very badly with almost everyone else, and it also kept the Beresford/Fisher split very active as Jellicoe had been Fisher's protege and Beatty had sided with Beresford over the Dreadnought Vs Pre-Dreadnought dispute.

I believe some of this is covered in Castles of Steel by Massie, but yes, it does seem Beatty did have reason to think someone could decide to take a swing if he was alone and walking about the areas of a ship where there would be few witnesses, or into areas where groups of men may decide to gang up on him.

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Re: HMS Iron Duke

#5

Post by The Ibis » 15 Apr 2019, 16:37

Thanks Terry. I read Castles of Steel years ago. Obviously I didn't recall this!
"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." - Casey Stengel

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Don71
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Re: HMS Iron Duke

#6

Post by Don71 » 19 Apr 2019, 05:00

Lol,

Beatty was nearly shot to pieces from Hippers famous five, during the run to the south, although he had all the advantages with the QE's on his side, but made clear mistakes in communicating with Evan Thomas and his shooting training.
His day was only saved by the fact that the German 2.AGS (Bödecker) clearly failed and also Hipper did not recognize the danger at the Run to the North, however, the work for Beatty made exclusively Goodenough, who did an amazing job and excellent enlightened for Beatty.

Beatty did a horrible job when it comes to fighting and clearly lost against Hipper, but did a much better job with the help of Goodenough, when it comes to enlightenment, what was the job for both, Hipper and Beatty. So Hipper and Bödecker failed clearly their job and the day
Yes Beatty did his enlightenment job with the help of Goodenough, but he clearly failed at fighting, with a full house on hand.

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