Unrestricted submarine (U-Boat) warfare

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Mittennacht
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Unrestricted submarine (U-Boat) warfare

Post by Mittennacht » 29 Dec 2006 11:14

Hi everyone,

I'd be grateful if anyone could assist me with the following questions:

1 - How much 'commercial' shipping was sunk around the British Isles by U-Boats between 1914 and the end of 1915?

2 - When Kaiser Wilhelm II ceased the unrestricted submarine warfare policy in September 1915, was this just dropped quietly? Would this cessation have been known to the British public in either September or October 1915? Or would passengers during these two months, have considered themselves as potential targets as they had been since the previous February?

As always, any help would be much appreciated!

Cheers,

Mittennacht. :D

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Shipping sunk 1914 to 1915

Post by Dave Bender » 29 Dec 2006 15:46

Here are the WWI shipping losses.

http://www.gwpda.org/naval/stats002.htm

Prior to the fall of 1915 almost all shipping sunk by German submarines happened around the British Isles. However a sizable quantity of Entente shipping was sunk by German CLs during the first 3 months of WWI.

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Terry Duncan
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Post by Terry Duncan » 29 Dec 2006 20:59

As to the second part of your question, the end of the USW campain was widely known, coming as it did in response to threats from the US. How the public perceived this is another matter, as to be told one thing and to believe it are different things. I would imagine that a certain anxiety would still be felt amongst many passengers for a few months at least!

Terry

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Mittennacht
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Post by Mittennacht » 29 Dec 2006 23:58

Thanks Dave and Terry for your replies/info!!

Cheers,

Mittennacht. :D

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tigre
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Re: Unrestricted submarine (U-Boat) warfare

Post by tigre » 27 Apr 2019 18:34

Hello to all :D; a complement................................

Interference with British Shipping 1914.

The total number of vessels harassed or damaged per month, inclusive of everything (such as vessels stopped and released again, trawlers captured, or sunk by mines, etc.) is as follows. August 40, September 31, October 25, November 10, December 8. I quote these because when plotted as a curve (see diagram) they give a very striking forecast of the increasing security of our trade and shipping. To coin an impossible phrase, one might almost call it a " Command of the Sea " curve.

Source: The Naval Review. Vol III. Nº I 1915.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Re: Unrestricted submarine (U-Boat) warfare

Post by Polar bear » 20 Jun 2019 10:49

hi,

as this thread came back again, I would like to point out that "unrestricted submarine warfare" wasn't conducted only by u-boats (as in the title)

The RN subs conducted "unrestricted warfare" (sinking without previous warning) during the Dardanelles campaign in the Marmara Sea, as well.

Of course, being a nuisance, you won't find that in the internet ... but in books like http://www.modellversium.de/presse/artikel.php?id=584

greetings, the pb
Peace hath her victories no less renowned than War
(John Milton, the poet, in a letter to the Lord General Cromwell, May 1652)

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Re: Unrestricted submarine (U-Boat) warfare

Post by OpanaPointer » 20 Jun 2019 11:23

"Chief of Naval Operations and beginning of World War II

In August 1939, Stark became Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) with the rank of admiral. In that position, he oversaw the expansion of the navy during 1940 and 1941, and its involvement in the Neutrality Patrols against German submarines in the Atlantic during the latter part of 1941.[1] It was at this time that he authored the Plan Dog memo, which laid the basis for America's Europe first policy. He also orchestrated the Navy's change to adopting unrestricted submarine warfare in case of war with Japan;[2] Stark expressly ordered it at 17:52 Washington time on 7 December 1941,[3] not quite four hours after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. It appears the decision was taken without the knowledge or prior consent of the government.[4] It violated the London Naval Treaty, to which the US was signatory.[5]

Stark's most controversial service involved the growing menace of Japanese forces in the period before America was bombed into the war by the attack on Pearl Harbor. The controversy centers on whether he and his Director of War Plans, Admiral Richmond K. Turner, provided sufficient information to Admiral Husband E. Kimmel, Commander of the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, about Japanese moves in the fall of 1941 to enable Kimmel to anticipate an attack and to take steps to counter it. Captain (later Rear Admiral) Edwin T. Layton was Kimmel's chief intelligence officer (later also Admiral Chester W. Nimitz's intelligence officer) at the time of the attack. In his book, And I Was There: Pearl Harbor and Midway—Breaking the Secrets (1985), Layton maintained that Stark offered meaningless advice throughout the period, withheld vital information at the insistence of his Director of War Plans, Admiral Turner, showed timidity in dealing with the Japanese, and utterly failed to provide anything of use to Kimmel.[6] John Costello (Layton's co-author), in Days of Infamy (Pocket, 1994), points out that Douglas MacArthur had complete access to both PURPLE and JN-25, with over eight hours warning, and was still caught by surprise. Moreover, as Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers official historian Gordon Prange and his colleagues note in December 7, 1941 (McGraw-Hill, 1988), the defense of the fleet was General Walter C. Short's responsibility, not Kimmel's. Turner's insistence on having intelligence go through War Plans led Office of Naval Intelligence to a wrong belief that it was only to collect intelligence; Turner did not correct his view or aid Stark in understanding the problem.[7] Among others,[8] Morison and Layton agree that Turner was most responsible for the debacle, as does Ned Beach in Scapegoats (Annapolis, 1995)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Rainsford_Stark
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Re: Unrestricted submarine (U-Boat) warfare

Post by Terry Duncan » 20 Jun 2019 14:23

Polar bear wrote:
20 Jun 2019 10:49
hi,

as this thread came back again, I would like to point out that "unrestricted submarine warfare" wasn't conducted only by u-boats (as in the title)

The RN subs conducted "unrestricted warfare" (sinking without previous warning) during the Dardanelles campaign in the Marmara Sea, as well.

Of course, being a nuisance, you won't find that in the internet ... but in books like http://www.modellversium.de/presse/artikel.php?id=584

greetings, the pb
I believe there was quite an effective campaign in the Baltic too?

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Polar bear
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Re: Unrestricted submarine (U-Boat) warfare

Post by Polar bear » 20 Jun 2019 17:00

hi, Terry,
Terry Duncan wrote:
20 Jun 2019 14:23
I believe there was quite an effective campaign in the Baltic too?
yes indeed, but that was conducted according to the rules ("cruiser warfare"), stopping the merchants ships and letting the crews take to the lifeboats https://www.abc.se/~pa/uwa/sub-mass.htm

Warships like Prinz Adalbert and Undine were, of course, "fair game"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Prinz ... %281901%29 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Undine

As I pointed out before, the real "massacre" (in the word's sense) took place in the Sea of Marmara.

greetings, the pb
Peace hath her victories no less renowned than War
(John Milton, the poet, in a letter to the Lord General Cromwell, May 1652)

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Re: Unrestricted submarine (U-Boat) warfare

Post by Felix C » 30 Jul 2019 19:00

As a side not to this it is interesting that the Gers. instituted convoys, small ones, of their Baltic shipping and escorted lone steamers. This would be 1915. British Intelligence should have picked up on this and I wager there is a report in the PRO from their Sweden offices to indicate this.

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